GRO Price Increase Petition

[nigelp]

Family History is a hobby - I don't expect tax payers to subsidise my season ticket for Sunderland AFC and I don't expect tax payers to subsidise my   (and  overseas peoples') purchase  of BMD certs.

Rather belatedly - I agree with Gadget 

I completely agree that tax payers should not subsidise BMD certificates.

However, the real issue for me is whether the information put out by the GRO is accurate. My understanding is that the GRO has been making a financial loss but this is probably due to other activities or services including the failed original digitisation project. The current cost of £7 would appear to be more than sufficient to cover the cost of issuing a certificate if you consider that the cost for ordering a copy of a baptism, marriage or burial record from a Records Office is very much less and usually about half this price.

If the cost of issuing a certificate is considerably less than £7 then we are, of course, being asked to further subsidise other services by a price increase.   

Nigel

[MUMMYG]

Well done Nigel, Ive been trying to find a way of saying this exact thing. I totally agree with you and am fed up with people rolling out the same old party line about the public subsidising our hobby, it doesnt add up. We are being taken for fools here I feel.

Im sure its not legal for them to be issuing this information in the first place let alone selling it, not that we want to stress that fact but still. 

Not many want the actual certificate, most times its not the original anyway, just a copy written at the time we order it, therefore why not just supply the details from it by email, which would not cost much at all.  Choice is the key word here, or would that be the certificate orderers subsidising us?    

Ive signed the petition and passed it on to another group Im in. I think they do take notice and I think its a good way to communicate,  otherwise how would they know what people are thinking.

[nigelp]

Not many want the actual certificate, most times its not the original anyway, just a copy written at the time we order it, therefore why not just supply the details from it by email, which would not cost much at all.  Choice is the key word here, or would that be the certificate orderers subsidising us?    

I agree that not many of us want a certificate in the form in which it is current issued but, unfortunately, current legislation stipulates that is all we are entitled to receive. For the GRO to provide the information in some other form will require a change in the legislation and this is far from being near the top of the Government's agenda.

Nigel

[andycand]

The current cost of £7 would appear to be more than sufficient to cover the cost of issuing a certificate if you consider that the cost for ordering a copy of a baptism, marriage or burial record from a Records Office is very much less and usually about half this price.

In most cases record offices are operated by local councils often as part of their library network and a check of the councils financial records will show that they are subsidised by the local ratepayers. The fees they charge are usually a long way short of the actual cost, even a simple straighforward copy of a baptism takes time to process and send.

Andy

[nigelp]

In most cases record offices are operated by local councils often as part of their library network and a check of the councils financial records will show that they are subsidised by the local ratepayers. The fees they charge are usually a long way short of the actual cost, even a simple straighforward copy of a baptism takes time to process and send.

It is accepted that records offices are subsidised.

Most, although not all, records offices have no charge for use of most of their facilities and do, of course, have to fund their day-to-day overheads, new acquisitions of books, computer hardware and software etc from somewhere. However, I am not sure that the fees they charge for providing a copy of a straightforward baptism record are usually a long way short of the actual cost.  Clearly if inaccurate or incomplete information is provided then a member of staff will have to spend more time searching for the record and the fee is arguably insufficient. However, you could also argue that since their staff are primarily employed for other reasons and have no obligation to be helpful when inaccurate or incomplete information is provided such circumstances should be disregarded.

Nigel

[Plummiegirl]

Surely now that the prive has actually gone up these threads are pointless.

The Goverment will not go back on the price increase and as said before it was done to make the GRO self supporting & not requiring tax-payers money to keep it going.

Will not be posting to any more about this its done and dusted surely?

[silvery]

Wasn't it already supported by taxpayers, has been since 1837?  The cost of the certificates must be for copying and sending them to us?  There's a legal requirement that they send out these copies and they can't put them on the web for us to download.  Scotland has different legislation.  (I see Nigel has already pointed this out.)
I wonder if the price rise has got anything to do with it being amalgamated into the passport office?
Still, I think a petition is a waste of effort.

[Guy Etchells]

Well done Nigel, Ive been trying to find a way of saying this exact thing. I totally agree with you and am fed up with people rolling out the same old party line about the public subsidising our hobby, it doesnt add up. We are being taken for fools here I feel.

No, you are correct, it does not add up the true cost is between £15 and £20 per certificate.
If the government does as the petition asks and revues the costs we could find the prices increase sharply.

Im sure its not legal for them to be issuing this information in the first place let alone selling it, not that we want to stress that fact but still.

 

Not only is it legal to issue the information it is a legal requirement that they do if requested.

Not many want the actual certificate, most times its not the original anyway, just a copy written at the time we order it, therefore why not just supply the details from it by email, which would not cost much at all.  Choice is the key word here, or would that be the certificate orderers subsidising us?    

It is not legal for the GRO to provide information from the civil registers except by certificate.
Perhaps when we get a new government they will have the competence to legally change the law to allow online access.
The present government tried but failed to comply with the law and their attempt was rejected.

Ive signed the petition and passed it on to another group Im in. I think they do take notice and I think its a good way to communicate,  otherwise how would they know what people are thinking.

It has been proved time and time again that the petitions do not have the desired effect.
For instance there was a petition to change the census confidentiality period from 100 to 70 years. It received 9,388 signatures, no change effected.
The present petition only has 1,215 and will make the government think less people are interested in such legislation.

To be effective the petitions have to be well thought out, correctly worded and have well over 25,000 signatures
Cheers
Guy

[JenB]

Family History is a hobby - I don't expect tax payers to subsidise my season ticket for Sunderland AFC and I don't expect tax payers to subsidise my   (and  overseas peoples') purchase  of BMD certs.

Rather belatedly - I agree with Gadget 

I completely agree that tax payers should not subsidise BMD certificates.

However, the real issue for me is whether the information put out by the GRO is accurate. My understanding is that the GRO has been making a financial loss but this is probably due to other activities or services including the failed original digitisation project. The current cost of £7 would appear to be more than sufficient to cover the cost of issuing a certificate if you consider that the cost for ordering a copy of a baptism, marriage or burial record from a Records Office is very much less and usually about half this price.

If the cost of issuing a certificate is considerably less than £7 then we are, of course, being asked to further subsidise other services by a price increase.   ??

Well done Nigel, Ive been trying to find a way of saying this exact thing. I totally agree with you and am fed up with people rolling out the same old party line about the public subsidising our hobby, it doesnt add up. We are being taken for fools here I feel.

I was NOT 'rolling out the same old party line'. I have a mind of my own and was expressing my own opinion.

Jennifer