Mary Caroline ORFORD

[judb]

You had better sit down with a strong cup of tea to digest all this!!!!!!!!!!!![ - working backwards.

Free BMD has a birth:
Mary Caroline STONE, Mar quarter 1841, district West London, (Ref Vol 2 p 234)
 
West London reg district includes the following which are in London City which is given as her birthplace in 1871:
Barnards Inn, Bridewell, Inner Temple, Serjeants Inn, St. Andrew Holborn Below the Bars, St. Bartholomew the Great, St. Bartholomew the Less, St. Bride, St. Dunstan in the West, St. Sepulchre, and Thavies Inn

I think this is her family in 1851, although they are in Birmingham with a hard to read address which looks like 16 Hockley, Birmingham

Edward J or S Stone 32 Head Married Book something Card Maker b St Lukes London
Hannah Stone 39 wife Paper Box Maker b St Lukes London
Henry R Stone 11 b Covent Garden
Mary C Stone 10 b St Brides London [/color] - fits with birth above
Edward S Stone 8 b St Peters London
Elizabeth Stone 6 b Birmingham
Jone E Stone 5 Mo b Birmingham

And here they are in 1861 back in London at 210 Holborn, St Giles South, London
(No detail of birthplace - just "London" except for Jane b Birmingham)

Edward J or S Stone 42 Accountant
Hannah Marie Stone 48
Caroline M Stone 20 something box maker
Edward S Stone 10 Card maker - age not clearly written
Jane E Stone 10 scholar

So now you have her parents names as well.  Free BMD has this marriage:

Edward James STONE, March quarter 1839, register district St Georges Hanover Sq, and on same page
Hannah Maria HANAM

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Heavens this just keeps on getting better!!

IGI has this entry for Hannah Maria HANAM:
Birth:  21 SEP 1806    Christening:  14 OCT 1806   Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster, London, England
Parents: Samuel HANAM and Hannah

This is an extracted entry so likely to be correct.

There are these other baptisms at St Martin in the Fields for children of Samuel and Hannah HANAM

Ann Robinson HANAM -  Christening: 19 NOV 1814  4. SAMUEL HANAM - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 MAY 1775
Samuel HANAM :Birth: 09 DEC 1809 Christening: 10 JAN 1810
 
And could this be Samuel their father?? 
 Samuel HANAM   Birth16 May 1775 Christening: 22 MAY 1775 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London, England - his parents are also Samuel and Hannah!
 
Judith



 



   

[Rose-Twig]

Gee Judith, you are a machine! In less than a week you've tracked this line back further than anyone has managed in a lifetime!

I'm looking forward to having time on the weekend to digest all this wonderful information and enter it on my family tree... and share it with my family!

Thank you!

P.S. Free BDM - is this a website accessible to anyone?

[judb]

Yes, free BMD is open to anyone to use.  It has almost all registered BMDS for England and Wales from Sep 1837 when formal registration began.  There are some limitations - it only lists registrations 3 month lots; it has no mention of parents (some births do later) and it only tells you the registration district.

Your HANAM family have an unusual name, and they did not move far so they have been fairly easy to find.  I had a look for William Orford but there are too many and too few clues to be able to figure out which one ours would be.

The other list which you may know of is FamilySearch, sometimes called International Genealogical Index (IGI).  This is compiled from church registers, or local records or from information sent in.  The information sent in may be incorrect but the other entries are usually reliable.  It is very hit and miss though as many churches are not included.

I had a lovely time following them through - and felt very envious as to how nicely they just 'appeared' 

Judith

[tropicalj]

Judith has certainly given you a good background from the English census.

Have you got Mary Caroline's age on the birth certificate for Eleanor Alice Orford?

This should help sort out which Mary C was her mother.

Still no close to finding who the father was though

kind thoughts Jenn

[tropicalj]

When browsing a couple of well known Genie sites I found some family trees
which seem to confirm the information that both Judith and I have found.

This sis from a public tree
"Eleanor Orford was born to to a young unwed mother who didnt want the responsiblity of a child. So, Eleanor was left with her grandparents and was a happy child.

 When she was five, Eleanor had whooping cough. Later, she remembered being in her bed, coughing and coughing. The sun streamed in her window onto her bright green patterned bedspread. Her blindness was caused by this illness, but the colour 'green' remained in her memory and was always her favourite colour.

 As she grew older, Eleanor's grandparents found it difficult to meet her needs, so she moved to the Blind Institute. She became a brush maker, but nothing held her back.

She married Christie Nebe. Her first child Christina was stillborn, but undeterred, Eleanor went on to produce a parcel of six boys, losing one but raising the other five without assistance. She became a very staunch member of the Salvation Army and held services in her own home for many years.

After Christie's death, Granny Nebe took in boarders and endeavoured to save their souls as well"

the three trees that I could view have no name of the father and no mention of the other birth I found for Emma Elizabeth Orford in Qld,  but  they do seem to verify that Emma Orford sister of Mary Caroline Jnr middle name was ELizabeth.

[Rose-Twig]

Hi Jenn,

I have just spoken to my Grandma and she doesn't actually have a copy of Eleanor's birth certificate, so I will put this on the priority list to obtain.

It was an interesting chat though as Grandma said that from what she was told Mary had 3 children very young to the unknown Chinese gentleman and apparently died at the age of 19?? - which matches the 'young unwed mother' quote you've found (I would love the link to the quoted site if you have it as I'm guessing this a rather close relative, based on the nature of the entry, who may have more information).

This doesn't match anything on Qld BDMs that I remember seeing though. It would explain why the children had the name Orford and why the Orford grandparents raised them if Mary was in fact their actual daughter?

I hope this doesn't mean we're back to square one - I did say to Grandma though that perhaps Mary in fact had the children while married to John Brydon and the grandparents embarassed by the affair told the children a made up story of a young mother?? Your guess is as good as mine.

Thanks again for your help 

[tropicalj]

marriage from QLD Bdm's

reg no
1890/14565
groom  Corrie Robert
brideOrford Mary


birth reg
1891/48330 Joseph William Corrie
father  Robert  mother  Mary Caroline Orfond


death
reg no 1893/26158
Mary Caroline Corrie
father William Orford  mother Mary Stone

The family tree is on Ancestery not sure though if you have to have a subscription or not ( I do have on)

Jenn

[Rose-Twig]

OK, I've just re-read your reply #6 Jenn and am I right that you are thinking Eleanor's mother was Mary Orford and Mary's mother was Mary Caroline Stone (who went on to marry John Brydon meaning he would have been Eleanor's mother's stepfather, not Eleanor's stepfather as I first thought)?

This appears to make more sense with what my Grandma has just told me about Eleanor's mother dying young and the grandparents Orford raising the children.

Have I interpreted your postings correctly now? (Sorry, but you're right about the all the Marys being very confusing  )

[tropicalj]

yes Eleanor was born in 1886  to  a Mary Caroline Orford no father listed

Mary Caroline Orford JUNIOR married Robert Corrie

and MAry Caroline Orford SENIOR married John Brydon,  he John would have been her Grandmothers second husband,  so I guess he was her step grandfather.   


Jenn