Mary Caroline ORFORD

[Rose-Twig]

Hi,

My 3x Great Grandmother is causing some confusion. In the Qld BDM Database, Mary Caroline ORFORD is listed as the mother of Eleanor Alice ORFORD (my 2x Great Grandmother), however although married to John Brydon, the family story goes that Mary had an affair with a visiting Chinese Businessman resulting in Eleanor, hence another deadend.

There is a Mary ORFORD listed as being born in 1866, who I believe to be the same lady (sorry it's been a while since I looked it up and the website is now being uncooperative for me to check the exact name that is listed - there was a Mary Angel ORFORD listed somewhere too). I am unable to find any information about her parents Robert George ORFORD and Susan Dunegin (spelt in a variety of ways throughout Qld BDM). Can anyone help?

My suspicions tell me that they may have been immigrants?

Thank you,
Rose-Twig 

[tropicalj]

There is this death in Qld

reg no 1911/3187
name Mary Carolien Brydon
father Edward James Stone
mother Mary Maria Hannam


this lady is buried in the same grave as  Daisy Margaret Orford. 

as per the Brisbane Grave Finder
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:BASE::pc=PC_899


Brydon Mary Caroline  04 / 05 / 1911   aged 66 years 
Orford Daisy Margaret  09 / 04 / 1910  unknown

there is also another birth with no father but mother Mary Orford
Emma Elizabeth Orford born 20/10/1889 reg no  003868/1889
Jenn

[judb]

1903 electoral rolls show Mary Caroline (home duties) and John Henry (carter) BRYDON at Prince St Paddington (Brisbane)
1908
both (John listed as 'labourer' at Trafalgar St, Woolloongabba

1903
George Henry (bootmaker) and Daisy Margaret (dressmaker) ORFORD at Short St, Pittsworth (Darling Downs)
1905 both at Stuart St, Dalby
1908 at Raven St, Brisbane South
1913 both at Qualtrough St Woolloongabba - George is a 'commision agent' (are there two Daisys?)
and in 1925 both at Vacy St Toowoomba - George an assurance agent.  Also at the address is Thomas Edward ORFORD, cordial maker
1930 both still at Vacy St, with Eric George. Thomas is now at Herries St Toowoomba with  Evelyn, Irene and Edith
Still in Toowooba in 1937
1943, 1949 and 1954 in Wynnum.  This is the extent of my access.

Ah - there are two of them - one born 1905, parents George Henry ORFORD and Daisy Margaret COCKROFT.  This little girl is the one buried in 1910.

Interesting that the death found by Jenn for Mary BRYDON does not record Orford in the parent names 

Judith

[tropicalj]

Interesting that the death found by Jenn for Mary BRYDON does not record Orford in the parent names 

I  thought about this, and wondered  if Orford was her married name.  There is a death in Qld for a William Orford in 1883

and I found this death while searching around

reg no 1954/1285 Reuben Sinclair ORFORD
father  Orford William
mother Mary Caroline Stone

which to me confirmed my suspicions

and then  this death
reg no 1957/19765
George Henry ORFORD
father Orford William
mother Mary Stone

now George Henry Orford was the name of  father of Daisy Margaret Orford who is buried in the same grave as Mary Caroline Orford.

A search of the Newspapers on line reveals that Daisy Maraget was the infant daughter of George Henry Orford... the article is not fully available as yet.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?searchTerm=orford+daisy&textSearchScope=full&facet=titleid:16

Which leads me to think that George Henry Orford was the sone of Mary Caroline Orford. 

Jenn

[tropicalj]

there is a marraige in England in the second quarter of 1861
 William Orford and Mary Stone both appear on the same page

By her death record Mary was 66 giving her a birth year of 1845c so she was only 16  but  that is assuming her age at death was correct.

Jenn

[judb]

Well found, Jenn

Judith

[tropicalj]

Rose-Twig

do you have Eleanor Orford's actual birth certificate

I am interested to see what her mothers age was

Mary Caroline and William Orford also had a daughter Mary,

now Mary marries in Qld

reg no 1890/14565
groom Corrie Robert
bride Orford Mary

then she dies in 1893
regno1893/26158
Mary Caroline CORRIE

father William Orford Mother Mary Stone.

which makes me wonder if this is the Mary the mother of Eleanor Alice Orford and possible Emma Elizabeth Orford (which by the look of the census was a family name)


the mother Mary Caroline Orford nee Stone who married John Henry Brydon was allready mid forties when she alledgley had Eleanor Alice whilst married to John Brydon and the child/children were registered as Orford

hope I have explained what I am thinking clearly enough for anyone to follow

thanks Jenn

[judb]

I think this might be the family in 1881 - thank goodness for the name Rueben among all these Marys and Williams!  So there were two Mary's as Jenn has suggested.

1871 21 Britannia St St Pancras
William Orford 30 Head coachman b Marylebone
Mary Orford 30 wife b Cripplegate
Emma Orford 9  - all chn b Pancras
William Orford 6
Frederick Orford 5
Jane Orford 3
Mary Orford 8 months


1881 51 St James Rd, West Islington
William Orford 40 Head Cabdriver b Lambeth
Mary Orford 40 wife b City of London
William Orford 16 Blacksmith assistant b Bloomsbury
Jane Orford 13 b St Pancras
Mary Orford 10 b St Pancras
Ruben Orford 8 b Islington
Henry Orford 2 b Islington

And I would think this is William's death in Qld
1883 William Orford, parents: John Orford, Mary Wigley #15885

Thus the immigration would be between 1881 and 1883.

The daughter Mary's birth:  http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Mary Caroline ORFORD, reg Pancras  1b 69, Sep qr 1880

I think I can find Mary C Stone (the mother)in 1851 and her birth - do you want them as well??
Judith

[Rose-Twig]

Hi Jenn and Judith,

Wow ladies!!! Thank you so much for all your hard work. My head is spinning with the information you have found. I'm looking forward to going through it.

Jenn, I believe my Grandma has a copy of Eleanor's birth certificate, so I will ask her to check if her mother's age is listed.

Please let me know if there is any more information you need from me or if you make anymore discoveries.

Thanks again ladies!