John Williams

[Jo Harding]

Hello jomiskelly,

I have done a street search of Llandudno in the 1851 census. There is no sign of Thomas Williams that I could see.

One entry that did strike me was the following:

Llandudno, HO107/2519 Page 27. Pen y Fron number 3

John Williams head, widower, aged 43, assistant overseer to farmer, born Llanelian.
Mary Williams, daug, aged 12, born Llandudno.
Jane Williams, daug, aged 10, born Llandudno.
Ann Griffiths, aged 24, servant, born Denb, Llandrillo.

I am fairly sure that Pen y Fron is on the lower slopes of the Great Orme.

I am not sure of this but it is worth bearing in mind. The place of birth is the problem.

Re the grave(s) those in St Tudno's in the old cemetery are few now and most are illegible. I gave up looking for my ancestors who are buried there. Best to get the details. sttudnos(at)llandudno-parish.org.uk

St Tudno's has a very good website if you haven't seen it http://www.llandudno-parish.org.uk/sttudno.html

Jo

[Jo Harding]

I forgot to ask you if you know the pub he had in view of the entry on the 1881 census?

Jo

[jomiskelly]

Hi Jo,

I've seen that 1851 entry but not convinced.  John seemed to be very good at listing his place of birth in subsequent years as Roewen or Caerhun so can't figure why he'd list it differently.  Also, I have no evidence of any kids by his first marriage.  Not to say there weren't any, of course.

As for the pub, I have as yet to find which it may have been.  I gather the Old Telegraph House became the Summit Hotel but this was after the Williams family left.  It was in Williams' ownership by 1871 till sometime between 1901 and 1911.

Thanks for your suggestion re the churchyard etc though, cheers

Jo

[Jo Harding]

Hello jomiskelly,

With hindsight, I agree that the John Williams in that census is very likely not your ancestor.

The Summit Hotel was built from the Old Telegraph House as you say. It is covered on the Great Orme web site http://www.greatorme.org.uk/canolfan.html

There are some good photos on this and a brief history too.

There is a very good photo of the old Summit Hotel on Llandudno Local, section of Old Pictures: The Great Orme. This looks to have been taken in the 1920s, possibly earlier.

I should think you would find out more on the pub by going through the trade directories, or street directories. They keep loads of these in Llandudno Library. Not a bad section on local history there. They have some books on the Great Orme alone and these go into much detail.

The other possibilty is the local newspapers, obituaries etc. They keep these going way back on microfilm in Llandudno Library too.

My great grandmother used to stay in the Summit Hotel for a fortnight every year. She lived in the town of Llandudno and reckoned the air at the top of the Orme was better and did her good!

Jo

[hiraeth]

Thank you for the link Jo - the mention of wind brought me a big smile

My parents lived in Craig y Don for many years and I don't think a day went by in the five years I lived there with them that the ****** wind did NOT blow    Many a winter night the surf could be heard pounding the beach from streets away and the (very sturdy) old house would shudder as if punched.  Almost like being in a ship at sea     The trippers loved the fresh air when they came from the cities - it must have been heavenly in the days of coal fires to get away from the smog at home.  But my it did get a little wearing if you lived there full time!

Heather   

[Jo Harding]

Hello Heather,

This is a bit off message, so to speak but I had to say that you didn't know what wind was, you had to have lived on the West Shore to know that !!

I lived on the West Shore for 6 years and on some days, couldn't open the front door. Walking anywhere was impossible. I was always worried that we would lose the roof and they a neighbour told me that the place next door had lost all the roof and a number of others in the vicinity.

The plus to it were the beautiful sun sets but never again.

My mother was born and bred in Llandudno and she told me that in her childhood days, she could lean on the wind on her way to school. She also remembered the two seas (North and West shores) meeting along Gloddaeth Ave.

Jo

[jomiskelly]

Thanks for your thoughts, Jo.  Much appreciated.  I'm afraid that's really why I am stuck as I live about as far away as it is possible to be!  This is why I am reliant upon the internet and locals. 

As mentioned previously, a distant "cousin" (of this branch) lives round the corner from the Orme so to speak but is a busy person. I might try writng to libraries or post on Llandudno Local.

Thanks again

Jo

Ps, Growing up in Lincolnshire with the winds scudding across hedgeless fields you got to lean on the wind too!!

[Jo Harding]

Hello Jo,

The question on the pub John Williams ran might be answered by something I have found which says that the Old Telegraph House was once "The Telegraph Inn". From this, they used to relay messages between Holyhead and Liverpool.

It might be something to research to establish if this was the pub he refers to.

Jo

[jomiskelly]

Yes, I'd wondered about that, cheers