Finding Mary Ann Frances NEWMAN

[rebeccaclaire86]

Hiya Lucy,

I'm not sure about the Long connection - do you know that she was definitely from England?

 The reason I ask is there is a VERY likely-looking marriage on FamilySearch.org between Amelia Martha Moore Brown & John Newman in Inniscara, Cork County, Ireland.  It was on 7th August 1852 - his father was John Newman, hers was Thomas Ware Brown, which ties in with the info on her death index - her father was listed as Thomas Brown.  On the London marriage, though, her father was John Long which doesn't tie in as well.

Her death certificate (as Rachel Richards in 1890) might clear this up - I think (based on the one I bought from the 1850's of William Switzer Richards mother Rachel) it lists where they came from & all children born...  Might be worth getting to work out if your Amelia came from Ireland.

Hope this helps - I am intriged now

Becky

[judb]

Hmmm,
just wondering if you have the right couple in London?

You probably have good evidence for the London life of John and Amelia but there are a couple of other NEWMANs in London at around the same time.

There was another John NEWMAN with a wife Amelia having children baptised at St Pancras in the later 1850s, and yet another couple who seem to have similar names.

The John NEWMAN 30, porter (as he is living at the same address as a railway porter perhaps he is also on the railways) and Amelia 24 that you have in the 1851 census show John as being born in Wiltshire, Amelia in Aston Oxfordshire.  

1861 census shows a John NEWMAN 43, Carman,b Wiltshire and Amelia 34, b Brighton,  living in Shoreditch with children 8, 6 and 1, the two older ones born in Shoreditch.
This chap's occupation is given as 'carman' (Carmen were often employed by railway companies for local deliveries and collections of goods and parcels.  Also sometimes someone who drove horse-drawn trams was called a Carman. http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/c.html)
Aston, Oxfordshire is part of Bampton which could be mis-heard by the enumerator as 'Brighton'.

The other couple are John Frederick NEWMAN and Amelia Adelaide still in St Pancras district in 1861.

I just wonder if one of these couples may be the ones in the 1851 census?


Edit to add:
Have just read RebeccaClaire's post and I think her information is well worth considering.  My thoughts are that the couple in St Pancras in 1851 may be the couple in Shoreditch in 1861 which, obviously, can't be your John and Amelia.

Judith

[LHurrey]

Thank you both!

I think the Irish marriage would be the most likely option. The reason I went down the 'Long' path was from a snippet remembered by a relative but they were very unsure of the name (perhaps my rellie meant she had a looong name  ). I'll chase down Amelia's death cert to confirm.

I do wonder where the Perriam bit came from but beginning to think it was mis-remembered/mis-reported on Martha Ann's death cert.

Becky, PM me with an email address and I'll forward that marriage cert to you.

Thanks again!

[LHurrey]

Just downloaded an image of the death cert. From what I can see from the poor quality image, it looks like you were right on the Cork track Becky. I can see a previous marriage to John Newman in Ireland listed. For the mother it seems to list her as 'Amelia Brown formerly not Brown'... useful!

[judb]

 The Cork option seems to be the right one, then.  Well found, Becky.

It looks as though she was married once or twice before the Newman marriage?  Maybe that's where the Perriam comes from.

Thanks for letting us know

Judith

[cando]

Ah the value of certs.

I read the cert as Thomas BROWN, Customs officer and mother Amelia BROWN formerly Not known.  That is usual way to describe a mother if her maiden name is not known, on a death cert in that era.

[LHurrey]

Aha! You're right cando. Thanks 

[rebeccaclaire86]

Hurrah!  Interesting that he's a Customs Officer, I imagine that - along with the Ware middle name - will make him a bit easier for you to trace too.  Maybe Perriam will crop up in another branch of the family randomly... I suppose it depends who was registering Martha Ann's death as to how reliable their info was. 

Will PM you my email now, thanks!

Becky

[smithysarah]

I have John and Amelia Newman in my tree.  John was from Bulkington in Wiltshire.  I have found no trace after 1861 census.  Ancestry trees have a few mentions on the couple but nothing verified.
Sarah