Sharman siblings missing since 1871

[Lucy2]

 I have sent an email to NZ archives for some help.
I have access to the NZ BDM and what I find is interesting is that I cannot find a death for Herbert William Sharman at all. Maybe he never lived in NZ, but just owned property Would this explain probate, but no death record?

Keen to hear any view points on this?

Roby

Hi Roby

If you check your recently-added thread on the New Zealand board, you'll see that "leandra" has posted information about the burials (at Oxford Cemetery, NZ) of "Charles William SHARMAN and his wife Mary Ann" ... and also "a Herbert SHARMAN - buried 2 July 1899":

This Herbert SHARMAN is very likely to be the person for whom Archives New Zealand (Christchurch) hold a probate record (Herbert William SHARMAN - farmer of Oxford - 1899) ?
The probate record though, is most unlikely to contain information which would allow you to positively identify the parentage of this man.

I would suggest you actually contact NZ BDM and ask if they can check further for the death record of Herbert W. SHARMAN.   
[The NZ Historical BDM online, does not have a "wildcard" facility which enables a search for variants of surname - and since it's inception last year, many of us have discovered errors in the online records.    NZ BDM are happy to accommodate enquiries.]

http://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home

[Incidentally, the death record for the "Charles William SHARMAN -died NZ - 1938 - aged 81 years" ... I've just found this recorded on the BDM index, under "SHERMAN"]

~   Lu

 [ in Aotearoa ] 

 

[J.J.]

Thread on N.Z. board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442790.0.htm


http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/shipping/mig-nz2.htm#nz2
One  trip of LADY JOCELYN   left in 1874 & arrived in '75
arrived Jan 21st  1875  Lyttelton, departed  England   Nov. 3rd.  1874


I imagine you are looking to confirm if the Kettering marriage of 1849 Martha Kimbell / John Sharman on page are correct ancestors... have you not picked up the birth cert for your Charles William Sharman?

added:Just saw in another posting that you do know the parents

Death of his wife: May 16th 1935... from 1838 memoriam notice
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ashleigh/1870-1908/1938.May.Christchurch.Press.BMD.html
 
 

[J.J.]

Just found this, but might be a red herring...

MORRIS Elizabeth Martha Born 05 November 1877, baptised 28 May 1905 daughter of Isaac labourer & Martha of East
Oxford witnesses Elizabeth Gainsford, E Maria Gardiner by Rev R F Garbett

Charles Frederick Barker,  aged 47 years Bachelor occupation Farmer born Rangiora Residence Whetukura, Hawkes Bay, usual Residence Whetukura Hawkes Bay son of James BARKER occupation Framer & Mary Anne nee DINES Married 30 August 1911 St Andrews Oxford:
MORRIS Elizabeth Martha aged 33 years spinster occupation, Music Teacher Born East Oxford Residence East Oxford  daughter of Isaac MORRIS occupation Market Gardener & Elizabeth nee SHARMAN

So it seems Isaac remarried an Elizabeth Sharman sometime after 1877
http://www.lynly.gen.nz/HAMorrisWells1858England.pdf

[roby]

Thank you all for your responses and information.   

I have posted on the NZ list that I may be looking at the wrong Charles William SHARMAN, I have ordered the marriage certificate of Charles William and Mary Ann Powell hoping that this will give me his parents names

Once again thank you all and I will post the result when the certificate arrives.

Regards
Roby

[Lucy2]

Hi Roby

On one of your NZ threads, you mentioned your g/grandfather Charles William SHARMAN, married in Australia in 1890 and died there in 1910.   You also noted, having previously found births around 1858/59 in Northamptonshire, for two children named "Charles W. SHARMAN".

The Charles William SHARMAN (of Oxford, NZ) who married there in 1883, whose last child was born 1893, and who is buried with his wife Mary Ann, can't possibly be the same person who married in 1890 and died 1910 in Australia. ?

It does seem perhaps that the UK census returns you've followed, are not the family of your Charles W. SHARMAN - but are likely to be connected to the SHARMAN's who went to NZ.   

~   Lu
 

[J.J.]

I am sure I saw a posting that said you "have" the marriage for Charles!

p.s. Yes, we were all very enthused because we thought we had a valid mystery to solve...
Do you actually have documentation that says your ancestor's middle name was William? If so, what led you to Northamptonshire?
Someone else seems to have laid claim to the same Charles...?? But judging from the "actual" brother also in N.Z. and a hint of Eliz. in Oxford as well, mother Martha dying in 1874, I think the N.Z. info looks to be the fellow.
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.england.nth.general/1493.1/mb.ashx
Hopefully the marriage information will put it to rest...
 

[roby]

Re: Sharman siblings missing since 1871
Dear All

My g grandfather Charles William SHARMAN marriage certificate indicates that he was born in Northamptonshire and he was born about 1857/58 and he married in Australia in 1890 and died here in 1910.

Over the past 5 years I have searched and eliminated every Charles William Sharman and even Charles SHARMAN found in all parts of the UK following them and their families through each census.

The only one I could find that had left before 1891 census ( ie. before the 1890 marriage ) was the one that now looks like he settled in NZ.   But to ensure that I had the correct person, as I was unable to find a shipping record, I decided to find his ? siblings, hence my post.   

With the help of the list, I have achieved my aim, to ënsure that I had the correct person".  It may not be the result I wanted, but that is why I asked the list to help out.
So I still have a "valid"mystery to solve,  what happened to my Charles William SHARMAN?? 

I am now back to the beginning and will retrace my steps to try and solve the puzzle.
I will post the result of the marriage certificate when I receive it. 

regards
Roby
 

[J.J.]

Well don't be insulted roby, as you hadn't mentioned this was a search for proof, you stated that these were your g grandfathers siblings.   If you want to be mad at someone be angry with your ancestor for not being specific on the marriage license   You still haven't been forthcoming with the question, was his middle name always used as Charles William Sharman. (ie: Have you looked for a William Charles, etc....) Nor have you ever stated what name your Great Grandmother had...
 
There are some pretty fantastic researchers on here, who can really dig out a lot of information and solve this kind of family mystery, but you need to be forthcoming with information, and also keep your number of postings to a minimum.

[J.J.]

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442790.15.html  adding roby's quote from the N.Z. board...

Dear All,

Today I received the marriage certificate for Charles William SHARMAN and  Mary Ann POWELL (parents Joseph Powell and Mary Falley? ) aged 21  Married 27th September 1883
Charles William SHARMAN (parents are John Sharman and Martha Kimble) he was born at Cransley Northamptonshire  and aged 25 when married.
The witnesses were Herbert SHARMAN and Andrew BAXTER

This certificate confirms that the Charles William SHARMAN that left England sometime after the 1871 census and settled in Oxford about 1874/75  and died in 1938 is not my g grandfather as I had believed.

I had never felt comfortable with the fact that I could not find the siblings of my "Charles William SHARMAN" or any shipping record into Australia, therefore I decided to search for the siblings and hopefully establish or find some clue that this man was undoubtedly my ancestor.
Well thanks to rootschatters, the siblings have been found and  it has been established  that he is not my ancestor
I need to restart my search for my elusive Charles William SHARMAN

Once again thank you one and all.
Roby