Marriage in Berlin, NY 1861-1864

[ShaunJ]

Erato,

Not sure why you are being so dismissive.

William Marion Fay or "Professor Fay" was a showman, and quite famous in his time as exhibitor of, and co-performer with, the Davenport brothers who were spiritualist illusionists. Some contemporary reports say he was born in Darmstadt Germany, others say he was born USA of German parents. He toured Europe with the Davenports in the 1860's and 1870's, and  went with them to Australia circa 1875. Australia became his home thereafter. In his Australian naturalisation papers he said he was born in Buffalo, NY. He died in Melbourne in 1921.

There seems to be no doubt that  Eliza Lydia Meakes was his wife - the question is where and when where they married.

[Erato]

Not dismissive but confused.

The real question, I think, is whether the people in Wisconsin are the same as the people in Australia.  Or is it all an illusion?

Let’s put together a timeline:

~ 1837 - Benjamin Meakes [hypothetical brother of Eliza Lydia Meakes] born in Reading
~1850 - W.M. Fay immigrates to US? or maybe he didn’t
~1862 - Eliza Lydia Meakes born in England
~1861-1864 - WilliamFay and Eliza Lydia Meakes marry in Berlin, USA
~1864 - Fay’s son Franklin Ethelbert born in Berlin, Wisconsin or maybe in Illinois
~1860s-1870s - W.M. Fay tours Europe with the Davenports
1870 - William, Elizabbeth and Frank Fay in Lacrosse, Wisconsin
~ 1875 - W.M. Fay goes to Australia
1877 - Australian inquest on Elizabeth Emily Lydia Meakes’s mother
1879 - Franklin Ethelbert Fay arrives in Australia from England
1883 - Elizabeth Emily Lydia ("Lilly") Meakes [daughter of Eliza Lydia Meakes’s hypothetical brother Alfred Moore Meakes] marries Tom Wood
1890 - Benjamin Meakes’s illegitimate son Alfred Moore Meakes born in Bournemouth, mother Ellen Le Bouge
1891 - Ellen Le Bouge recorded as Ellen Gibson Meakes on census
~ 1895-1907 - Franklin Fay living in Chicago
1902 - Benjamin Meakes dies at Franklin Fay’s house in Melbourne
1907 - Franklin Fay enters US from Canada
1898 - Fay and Meakes marry in Australia
1920 - Alfred Meakes [son of Benjamin] in Los Angeles
1921 - death of W.M. Fay

Clearly not all of this can be true.  If Eliza Lydia was born in 1862, then she is not the mother of Franklin Ethelbert Fay born in 1864.  If Franklin was living in Chicago from 1895 to 1907 then he wasn’t in Melbourne when his uncle Benjamin died there in 1902.  If Eliza Lydia married W.M. Fay in the US in ~1864, it is unlikely that she remarried him in Australia in 1898.  And so on.

[krisesjoint]

Him

No help with the marriage but this may help clarify some of the questions asked re the Australian side.

Franklin Ethelbert FAY ( listed as a solicitor) appears in the Australian Electoral Rolls with his wife Angelina Margaret....Sorry I can't help with Victorian records but someone on the Australia board will be able to assist.

1903 - 313 Park Street South Melbourne
1909 - Brougham Place Kew
1919 - 28 Brougham Place Kew
1924 - 28 Brougham Place (with  Eliza Lydia and Hilda)
1931 - 28 Brougham Place
1936 - 28 Brougham Place
1937 - 28 Brougham Place
1943 - 28 Brougham Place

1949 and 1954 - 28 Brougham Place - Angelina Margaret is alone

William Marion and Eliza Lydia

1903 - Brougham Place - Independent Means
1914 - 34 Northcote Rd Armadale - Financier
1919 - Omro Cotham Road Kew - Financier

Franklin FAY aged 15 was listed as a saloon passenger aboard the HANKOW London to Sydney via Melbourne - he is crossed out so may have disembarked in Melbourne (Yes - Confirmed arrived Melbourne 15 Nov 1879)

http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23

Mr Franklin FAY 48 a Solicitor b USA
Mrs Angelina FAY 38 b Australia travelled from Sydney to BC aboard the MOANA Their final destination was listed as London - 26 Sep 1907 when they crossed to USA they were said to be in transit. Country of last permanent residence Australia address Armidale Rd Armidale Melbourne (WM FAY Father and WM FAY Father in Law is stated)

At the time of his naturalization in Australia William Marion FAY lists his birth as Buffalo NY 16 Sep 1839. He also mentions his son the solicitor

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=33181&I=1&SE=1

Looking at the online newspapers his widow and son mentioned re his estate, you will also find death notice also his sons estate left to his wife, children and relatives in 1944.

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y

Cheers Kris 

[ShaunJ]

Eliza Lydia Fay's death announcement (SMH 23 Sep 1925 p14) puts her age at 82 suggesting a birthyear around 1842/3. Her Will is viewable online and refers to her son Franklin, which tends to confirm that she was Franklin's natural mother. http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/component/daPublicBaseContainer?component=daViewItem&entityId=1144761112.

There is an 1843 birth registration for Lydia Eliza Meakes, in Reading Berkshire, which may be her. Her brother Benjamin was born in Reading per the 1891 census.

[ShaunJ]

1851

10 West Street, Reading, Berkshire

Robert Moss 46 boot & shoe maker
Hannah Moss 50 midwife
Eliza L Meakes 7 - adopted child - scholar - Reading

HO107/1692/347/20

[ShaunJ]

I think this may be Eliza's family in 1841:

Katesgrove Lane, Reading, Berkshire
HO107/34/9/15/23

Thos Meakes   27   clerk
Eliz Meakes 30
Ellen Meakes 6
Bⁿ Meakes 4
Alf^d Meakes 2
K^t (or R^t) Meakes 7 months

There's also a Hy Eyall and a G Cozens in that dwelling.

Ellen Meakes appears to have married Edward Jennings in Greenwich in 1855.

[AlbatrossIV]

Hi there. I have been following the conversations which have been a bit confusing as I am trying to locate parents of the William Marion FAY. I have now been able to deduce that he was likely born in Germany and his name may have been Wilhelm Marius FAY. I can not find any evidence of his birth in NY nor of any of his parents in Buffalo Directories from 1840-1860.

According to his death certificate and his wife Elizabeth Lydia Meakes, they were married in Berlin, Wisconsin about 1863-1864. Their son was born in Omro, Wisconsin, not far from Berlin I believe about 1864. His father William, named their property in Victoria, Australia "Omro".

Thank you for all your feedback. I am currently undertaking some assistance in Germany to try and locate his birth on 16 Sep 1839, supposedly from Darmstadt area but he wasn't born in Darmstadt as that has been checked. North of Darmstadt in Gruningen, there are FAY members with Marius in their names which is not common, as according to German researchers, Marion is not a German name and he probably anglicized it when he came to US.

I have had no luck finding his immigration or anything similar around 1849-1852.  Many Germans had multiple first and second names and it is unclear which he may have used.

I have no idea what his mothers name was either. In his death certificate it lists his fathers name as William.

Thanks for your help everyone.

[ShaunJ]

Hi AlbatrossIV,

In WMF's Australian naturalisation papers (viewable online at http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ItemDetail.asp?M=0&B=331810 ) there is a notarised statutory declaration saying that he was born in Buffalo, Erie County, New York State. Why would he lie about his birthplace in a legal document?

[AlbatrossIV]

Hi ShaunJ,

Valid point. I believe he and his family left Germany for the US after 1850 as there are no records in 1840 or 1850 in the census with a Fay/Fey in the Buffalo or Erie County, New York area. At least I haven't been able to locate any. It also stated in a book by Houdini, that he immigrated to NY at the age of 11 and came from Darmstadt. He lived with his widowed mother in Buffalo. All the records I have noticed showed he was in NY by 1855 as he attended a seance in a western NY town.

I believe that he believed or wanted others to know he was not German born as his middle name Marion was of course non-German.

It comes down to what evidence there is and if I could locate a Fay family in 1840 or 1850 from Germany (parents) in western NY, then I would say his birth in Buffalo was correct. However, I have yet to find any evidence of that and feel he lived his early life there with his mother and then left home.

I also checked Directories in the Buffalo area for a widowed mother and there was only one, however, she was the wife of a Cyrus Fay who was a school teacher in Buffalo in the 1840's and 1850's and he came from New England.

So I have a researcher in Germany who believes she has found relations of William M. FAY and is now checking out marriages and baptisms, etc.

Thanks again for your help.

Jim