Author Topic: Puzzle at The Red Lion  (Read 32334 times)

Offline Shalena

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Puzzle at The Red Lion
« on: Friday 26 February 10 17:18 GMT (UK) »
If anyone can unravel this puzzle we would be grateful.  We had got so far, and then left it as we were following other lines...then JohnP came up with further information and suggested that I leave a post here to see if anyone can tie up the loose ends...thank-you John, your help was much appreciated.

On the 1851 census for Beds; we have a John Jenks, widower, aged 57 residing, and working at, The Red Lion Public House, High Street, Beds.  He has with him his 4 daughters.  Augusta A Jenks, 26, who we know about as she is the line linked with us; Alicia Jenks, born 1834; Lavinia Jenks, born 1840 and Rosina Emily Jenks, born 1841.  There is also a woman named Susan Jenks, aged 34, listed as a housemaid... on the Index she is Susan Jenks - but - the image has her as a Susan Page, born Cadon (?), Beds;!

Going forward to the 1861 census, we find John Jenks is still listed as Innkeeper at The Red Lion, but his age is now 62 (10 yrs after being 57???), and Susan F Jenks is now listed as being, 44, and the Innkeeper's wife, born Middlesex St James ?

We are assuming that John moved to Bedfordshire after a first (?) wife died, as we have him located in London during the years previous, and his first daughter is too old for Susan to have given birth to her...the second maybe...the later girls a possibility.  From IGI, John found the marriage of a John Jenks to a Susan Frances Probutt at St Paul's, Bedford on 31st January, 1859.  Sounds good, but now that means there are 3 different versions of Susan's name...or does John just like women with the name Susan?  ::)

If somebody could unravel all this, and hopefully answer the questions:-
Are Susan F Jenks, Susan F Page and Susan F Probutt one and the same person?
Was she the mother of any of John's children?
Is there any information regarding the years after 1861 about John, Susan or the younger girls?
We would love to hear about it.

Here's hoping!

Shalena
Brookes - Rotherfield. Carroll - Cork S.Ireland. Campbell - Dornoch. Cunnison - Moulin,Perthshire.  Forbes - Moulin. MacKay - Sutherland,Scotland. MacGregor - Inverness. MacIntosh - Dornoch.    Mew - Buxted,East Sussex. Monro - Sutherland. Murray - Creich,
Sutherland.  Pollard - Buxted, East Sussex. Priestley - Newington.  Reid - Logierait,Perthshire. Ross - Dornoch.  Sayers - Warnham,
East Sussex. Scot - Logierait,Perthshire. Weaver - East Sussex.

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,302
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #1 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:12 GMT (UK) »
Rosina Emily Jenks, 28,  of 53 Kentish Town Road married clerk John Flynn, 39, of 58 Hercules Buildings Lambeth, on 3 June 1871 at Holy Trinity Haverstock Hill.

Fathers shown as John Jenks, and William Flynn, gentlemen.

Witnesses John Jenks and Alice Sarah Jackson
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,243
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #2 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:27 GMT (UK) »
FreeBMD has a marriage of John Jenks in the March quarter 1859 where his wife is either Sarah Page or Susan Frances Probutt. However the IGI shows it was Susan Probutt that he married. As the birthplaces of Susan Page and Susan Probutt are so different I think they are two different people and it's just coincidence. I don't understand why you think that a servant in his inn should be the mother of some of his children. I think this is an occasion when you take the facts as they stand.

You say you have four children in 1851. My copy of the census only shows Augusta and Rosina living with John. Where have you found Lavinia and Alicia, and where did their birth years come from?

Baptisms
George Stillwell Jenks son of John & Sarah of Great Smith St, tallow chander at St John the Evangelist Smith Sq. bap 17 Aug 1823, born 29 Aug 1821 (he married Eliza Miller on 1 Oct 1848 at Kennington, his father named as John Jenks, licenced victualler)
26 Nov 1826 St Marys Lambeth Augusta Amelia Jenks dau of John and Sarah, of Lambeth Walk, tallow chandler (She married Thomas Priestley on 19 May 1851 at Newington Surrey, her residence St Paul Bedfordshire, father John Jenks, hotel keeper)
6 Jan 1826 Sarah Maria Jenks dau of John & Sarah, of Doughty Place, tallow chandler. St Marys Lambeth

There are others but I'm not sure it's them as John is described as gentleman

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline StevenG

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #3 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:29 GMT (UK) »
I don't think there is a problem.

Susan Page was a servant - had Ancestry indexed her correctly you wouldn't even being considering her as a Jenks.  So forget her.

That just leaves Susan F. Probutt who married John Jenks and became Susan F. Jenks.  Again, no problem.

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,302
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #4 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Ah.. I see... Alicia and Lavinia are with him in the 1841 census in St Pancras/Somers Town.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,243
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #5 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:35 GMT (UK) »
1841 census
Seymour St, St Pancras
John Jenks 40 Straw hat manufacturer Not b in Middx
Sarah Jenks 40 Not b in Middx
Augusta Jenks 15 b in Middx
Alicia Jenks 7 b in Middx
Lavinia Jenks 4 mths

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,302
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #6 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:38 GMT (UK) »
I reckon "Lavinia" on the 1841 is a mistranscribed Rosina.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bedfordshire boy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,243
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #7 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:43 GMT (UK) »
I think it's an enumeration error, Shaun. Rosina Emily's birth was registered in the March quarter 1841. I think the enumerator skipped/missed a line - I reckon it should read
Lavinia 3 or 4
Rosina
4 mths
Italics are the bits missed by the enumerator

There are baptisms on 9 July 1837 at St Mary Islington of Jane Lavinia Jenks, dau of John & Sarah, gentleman of Goswell Rd, born 11 March 1837, and of Eliza Adelaide Jenks born 7 July 1833. Also baptised same church and other details on 15 may 1831 of Emma Silenia Jenks, born 15 Apr 1831

Freebmd has the death of a Sarah Jenks at St Pancras in the March quarter 1847

David
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Beds:   Cople: Luke/Spencer
            Everton: Hale
            Henlow: Cooper/Watts/Sabey/Rook
            Potton:  Merrill
            Southill: Faulkner/Litchfield/Sabey/Rook
            Woburn/Husborne Crawley: Surkitt
Hunts:   Gt Gransden: Merrill/Chandler/Medlock
            Toseland: Surkitt/Hedge/Corn         
Cambs: Bourn: Bowd
            Eltisley: Medlock
            Graveley: Ford/Revell

Offline Shalena

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: Puzzle at The Red Lion
« Reply #8 on: Friday 26 February 10 18:56 GMT (UK) »
StevenG,

Thank-you for your input.  No problem now you have shown Susan Page can be discounted!

S
Brookes - Rotherfield. Carroll - Cork S.Ireland. Campbell - Dornoch. Cunnison - Moulin,Perthshire.  Forbes - Moulin. MacKay - Sutherland,Scotland. MacGregor - Inverness. MacIntosh - Dornoch.    Mew - Buxted,East Sussex. Monro - Sutherland. Murray - Creich,
Sutherland.  Pollard - Buxted, East Sussex. Priestley - Newington.  Reid - Logierait,Perthshire. Ross - Dornoch.  Sayers - Warnham,
East Sussex. Scot - Logierait,Perthshire. Weaver - East Sussex.