Thomas Richey and kin 1914 and earlier

[avm228]

Jan, it's probably best if you communicate with Darren either by participating further in this thread (for which you will get e-mail notifications) or through Rootschat's personal messaging system (see little green scrolls beneath usernames in left hand margin - again you will get e-mail notifications) as I have (1) a very full-time job, (2) recent surgery to recover from, and (3) a temperamental computer.  Much as I hope to see how things develop, and to assist if and when I can, I can't realistically be relied upon as a conduit going forward.

I'm delighted you're on board, I must say.

Anna

[DarrenMW]

Anna - i just PM'd you...you're a star!

Jan - I see your email addr, is it okay to email you directly?
We can discuss on here, but I wanted to regroup my data and email you what I have written down. That would be a great starting point where we can agree on details for certain people on the family tree and discuss others where there are conflicting dates or even omissions 

Our mutual relative Mr. Hollingsworth was a very VERY colourful character, that is for sure 

There is a mountain of info I need to collate, so it'll be a few hours time.

I am very happy we are in contact!

Thanks
Darren

[DarrenMW]

Jan, are you  the grand-daughter of Edward (b.Walthamstow/West Ham 1876)? He is the only Hollingsworth son born that year, and your member name 'Beckton' is huge clue with it's proximity to West Ham.

I am going to gather my notes, and crunch the data and email you directly, so we have the groundwork laid. At that stage we can carry on via email or hopefully via this thread.

 

[DarrenMW]

Hi Jan!

The following may be shocking to you, but I think there's more to Robert Hollingsworth than you know.

Please bear in mind this is only what I have relating to Robert Hollingsworth and his 'wifes'.
 Each 'wife' has her own colour..Eliza and her kids are blue, Isabela and her kids are red, Mary and her kids are green.

We also have a mysterious 'Robert!' in 1871 with no obvious mother. One link to HMS Impregnable is considered.

I think Robert Hollingsworth has several alias (see different colour for each name he uses) and double families living just a few hundred feet apart in St Clements 1861. Also, see how the Isabel Taylor kids end up mixed with the Eliza Smith kids in 1871 after Isabels death AND the kids are mixed in order as if he was bearing kids with both ladies during the same period.....where is Robert Hollingsworth in 1871? I think he is then going by Robert Smith?!

Somewhere in the mix we have to account for Thomas Richey also (as connected to Katherine Hollingsworth Ferguson)

I am going to compare my data to yours, and perhaps we can chat when you've done the same?

Kind regards!
Darren

EDIT: Sadly i cannot get the colors to work for 1871 the most important year!



1861

1,Chain Court, St.Clements Dane, Strand, London

Robert Smith 34, printers, b.Southampton, Hants
Eliza, 25
Eliza,  4
Alice,  2

Portugal St, St.Clements Dane , Strand, London

Robert Hollingsworth 34, Bookbinder, b.Southampton, Hants
Isabela 33, b.London
Emily, 7 b.London
Katherine, 5, b.London
Helen, 1, b.London




1871

12,Crawford Passage, Clerkenwell, London

BLUE- Robert SMITH Head Mar 44 Bookbinder Hants Southampton
BLUE- Eliza  Wife Mar 35 Middlesex Shoreditch
RED- Emily, age unknown, Bookfolder b. Middlesex
RED- Kate  15 Middx Holborn
BLUE- Eliza  14 Middx Strand
BLUE- Alice 12 Middx Strand
RED- Ellen  10 Middx Strand  * is probably Helen..the 3rd Isabel daughter?
BLACK- Robert  6 Middx Holborn
BLUE- Bertha  1 Middx Holborn


1881

Morrison Family , Newcastle, Durham
Thomas Hollingsworth 54, actor, (lodger) b.Southampton, Hants

28, Northampton Rd, Clerkenwell, London

Robert Hollingsworth, 53, actor, b. Southampton, Hants
Mary, 24
Bertha, 12
Edward, 5
C, 11 * I think this is either 11 months or 1 yr?..and it is Cecilia?
W, 0  * this must be the Richard we see in 1891 onwards?

1891

4, Hermes St, Clerkenwell, London

Tom Hollingsworth 64, Tiemaker, b.Southampton, Hants
Mary, 40, b. London
Bertha, 20, b.Clerkenwell, London
Edward, 15, b.West ham, London
Mary, 11   b.Clerkenwell, London   * does she ties up with Cecilia above in 1881?
Richard, 10   b.Clerkenwell, London  * I think this is the 'W' listed above in 1881?
Frederick, 9, b. Clerkenwell, London
Florence, 4,  b. Clerkenwell, London
Alfred, 1,  b. Clerkenwell, London

1901

4, Hermes St, Clerkenwell, London

Robert Hollingsworth, 61, Tie Maker, b. Southampton, Hants * age must be wrong, surely?
Mary, 42, b. Middlesboro, Yorks * age and now saying birth in Middlesboro?
Cecilia, 20, Tie Finisher, b. Clerkenwell, London
Richard, 20, Horsekeeper, b. Clerkenwell, London
Frederick, 18, Bricklayer, b.Clerkenwell, London
Florence, 14, b.Clerkenwell, London
Alfred, 11, b. Clerkenwell, London

[DarrenMW]

trying to link a picture of Thomas Richey (aged about 10) it's not displaying in this message for some reason 

 I uploaded picture from my computer to photobucket.com and inserted link on here by using the little picture icon above. No avail.

 I am really not good at the uploading stuff


update: nevermind, it is in .pdf format which we can't use here.

[avm228]

Can you scan it in in some other file format, or convert it using software on your computer?

The "technical help" board may be able to assist.

[DarrenMW]

My sister in law in London scanned it in as a .pdf, and it doesn't allow my the option to 'save as' in any other format.

My wife may now, she is the computer whizz in our house

I don't want to get the thread off track into a technical discussion, so i'll just wait till she can check it fore me.

Shame cos it's nice to put a face to the pic.

i wonder if Jan has a pic of the villain of the piece...Robert Hollingsworth?

[beckton]

Hi darren

I'm afraid i dont have a picture the only one i have is of Thomas/Roberts father also with the same Forename and also an actor, And my Grandfather drew a caracature of him. I do have info on his passport when he went to paris when he acted in a play he had blond hair blonde eyebrows grey eyes a pointed nose, its all in french so i had to get someone to translate.I also have a song written by him called WANTED A NICE YOUNG MAN. All of this is such an Enigma. on the 1871 census there is Alice well she must be Elizas child and not Thomas/Robert as Ellen Hollingsworth/ smith is younger than alice and i have the Birth certs of Ellen, Katherine and Emily and all i have found is a birth of Alice born 1857  mother eliza and single living in Richmond upon thames. The other thing is that you mention Brighton well my uncle said that my grandfather used to send my gran and the children off to kent hop picking while he went to Brighton.
have got got a birth cert of robert smith born 1865 and also of Cecilia/Mary.
Jan

[DarrenMW]

Hi Jan

thanks for posting here on this thread, it will make things so much easier with several wonderful people assisting. Anna, in fact almost feel like family as she knows them as well as I do! 

In 1881 I'm certain the Robert Smith living with Eliza, is the same person as the Robert Hollingsworth living round the corner with Isabella.
Isabella dies, and Mr.Hollingsworth/Smith moves the 3 girls (Emily, Katherine, Ellen) in with Eliza.  Does anyone disagree?

yes,  I agree Alice is Eliza's daughter, but thanks for the wonderful new info on Eliza's location (Richmond, Surrey, pure coincidentally I used to live there!...do you have the address by chance)...Alice went to a hospital in Ventnor, Isle of Wight, and died there in 1882, aged 24.

can we discount that Robert Hollingworth is the father of Alice? You may very well be correct that Eliza got pregnant by unknown man, but I still wouldn't rule our Robert Hollingsworth  until we see the Birth Cert. 

Brighton connection is very interesting too.....I always wondered why Thomas Richey settled in Brighton in the VERY early 1910's...We had a lead that had him there in 1911..........what timeframe is your uncle  talking about .

Of course, maybe the two facts are  not connected, as Brighton was a primary seaside location,....but also maybe your grandfather Edward was going to visit his older half-brother Thomas (Richey)!!!!! 

update: per my Nan,...her parents Thomas Richey moved to Brighton because his wife Emily (nee Wood) had a long line of family in Brighton.