Thomas Richey and kin 1914 and earlier

[avm228]

1881 - Northampton Road - Clerkenwell
1891 and 1901, 4, Hermes Street, Clerkenwell

the 1871 connection to Crawford Passage, Clerkenwell fits!


I am mentally crunching the names of the kids as 'Smith' in 1871 and trying to compare to later confirmed details we have! How many, if any, match up?

Three of the older girls (Emily, Katherine/Kate, Ellen/Helen) match up satisfactorily with the family he had with Isabella per 1861 census.

Sandwiched between them are Eliza and Alice.  Perhaps (1) Eliza (snr) had them in a previous relationship, or (2) they're Isabella's daughters but were elsewhere on 1861 census night, or (3) Thomas/Robt had them with Eliza whilst he was married to Isabella???

[DarrenMW]

All 3 of your options are very plausible!


I really don't know WHAT to make of this, my head is spinning now trying to equate it all.

So , he could have married  Eliza as his 2nd wife...pushing Mary (who shows up in 1881 census) to the #3 wife spot on the list.

Why would he assume the name Smith?

At least our Thomas ( Richey) is back on the radar

I need a coffee or a beer, and as it's a Monday morning here, I'm going with an expresso!



This is bizarre, but absolutely fascinating!

[avm228]

Robert Smith aged 6 in 1871 fits perfectly with believed year of birth for Thomas Richey!

Could this be him in 1881?

Vessels: Impregnable

[In a long list]

R. HOLLINGSWORTH Boy 2nd cl. Unm 16 St Giles M'sex

[avm228]

So , he could have married (Sarah) Eliza as his 2nd wife...pushing Mary (who shows up in 1881 census) to the #3 wife spot on the list.

Mary said in 1911 she'd been married 36 years.  Assuming she counted this so that it ended with Thos/Robt's death in 1907, that puts a marriage to Mary (if there really was one) at about 1871. So perhaps Sarah Eliza disappears from the scene after the 1871 census?

[lizdb]

1861

RG9 180 45 35

1 Chain Court, St Clemets Dane

Robert Smith 34 Printers somethnig bn Southampton
Eliza 25 bn Westminser
ELiza 4 bn Westm.
Alice 2 bn Westm.


Havent we already found him in 1861 though?

Do you think he had several families in different names in different places concurrantly? They all filled him in on the census as head of the house, even if he wasnt actually with them on census night, but was with another 'wife' and family and had told them some story .....


modified to add - yes we have found him as Hollingsworth with wife Isabella and the other children (Emily,Kate, Helen) see reply #20
Maybe he was flitting between these families, one as Thomas H and one as Robert S ....

[avm228]

1861

RG9 180 45 35

1 Chain Court, St Clemets Dane

Robert Smith 34 Printers somethnig bn Southampton
Eliza 25 bn Westminser
ELiza 4 bn Westm.
Alice 2 bn Westm.


Havent we already found him in 1861 though?

Do you think he had several families in different names in different places concurrantly? They all filled him in on the census as head of the house, even if he wasnt actually with them on census night, but was with another 'wife' and family and had told them some story .....

Yikes! Yes, the family with Isabella was in Portugal St, St Clement Danes in 1861 (he as Thomas HOLLINGSWORTH, 34 bookbinder b Southampton).  I wonder how far that is from 1 Chain Court?

[lizdb]

I really looks as if he had two families - one where he was Robert Smith and one where he was Thomas Hollingsworth, and maybe he flitted between the two.
I wonder if they knew about each other? They did by 1871 if all the children were together ..... well at least the children did.

Then he adds Mary to the equation later ....
possibly taking on her son Thomas as a stepson, who calls him his father when he later marries.

[avm228]

I really looks as if he had two families - one where he was Robert Smith and one where he was Thomas Hollingsworth, and maybe he flitted between the two.
I wonder if they knew about each other? They did by 1871 if all the children were together .....

His lawful wife was dead by 1871 so I suppose the children had no choice but to blend with the "other family"

[DarrenMW]

Liz...I am inclined to believe your theory!

In 1861 we already have him at Portugal Street, Strand married to Isabella  

AVM....... What is the ship 'Impregnable' , a HMS navy?  thats a new twist as  from military records I have Thomas (Richey/Smith/Hollingsworth) as serving in the Queens (West Surrey)  Regiment from 1883-1895
St.Giles = Holborn, so that fits the 1891 census where his place of birth was given as Holborn when he lived with sister Katherine and the Fergusons.