Origins of PENROSE aka PENROS

[jill.penrose]

Hello again Chris
I only have access to church records filmed by LDS so any more infor would be greatly appreciated.

Like you I wonder where the Penrose family was hiding prior to 1638.

From late 1800,s the family were either Baptists or Methodists.

I look forward to seeing if you can enlighten me.
Thanks Regards from Jill Penrose in New Zealand

[Chris Penrose]

Hi there

I am writing an essay on Middle Wharfedale place-names and have been looking in my copy of Reverend Henry Barber's British Family Names (1903)

On Page 12 it quotes Richard Verstegan from 1673:

'In Foord, in Ham, in Ley, in Tun
The most of English surnames run'

But this is only a partial statement, as Camden (1610) says in his Magna Britannia:

'By Tre, Ros, Lan, Car, Pol, and Pen,
Ye shall know the most Cornishmen'

Localities, Personal Names, Settlements, and Topography being the prime-determinants, adjusted down the centuries to reflect language and literacy, invaders, and style (among others).

Chris Pen-ros(e)

[jorose]

The Cornish Surnames site suggests pen-rose, 'end of moor', for Penrose, and 'pen-fos', ditch-end, for Penvose.

[cjnkira]

Hi Chris,
My name is Carrie.  I did research on my great grandmother in Grad school, and traced her father's line back to Philip de Penros.  You may find the following helpful.
I have managed to trace the Penrose clan back to about the year 1195.  This line begins with Philip de Penros (abt. 1195 Cornwall, England).  He lived in Escalls, France for a time, and had three sons, Robert Penros de Escalls (abt. 1221 Escalls, France), Michael Penros de Escalls (abt. 1248 Escalls, France) and Roger de Penros (abt. 1250 Sithney, Cornwall). It appears they moved back to England between the births of Michael and Roger. Robert Penros de Escalls’ son, Roger de Penros (abt. 1250 Sithney, Cornwall) is next in line. 
   Roger de Penros’ son was Richard de Penrees (abt. 1278 Sithney, Cornwall), who married a woman only known as Katherine in 1296. They had seven children between 1297 and 1309, five of whom married a Vivyan, a de Bosfrancan (2), a de Botyoulen, and a Le Archer.  John de Penros (abt. 1299 Penwith, Sennen, Cornwall) was Roger and Katherine’s second son, who married, Nichola Vivyan (abt. 1301 Sennen, Cornwall), around the year 1320.  John and Nichola had six children between 1321 and 1329...

[Chris Penrose]

I am interested to know how your ancestors got over there and from where.

Your research is very helpful, as I now know where the John Penrose of Sennen links into the Sithney family tree shown on the 16th-17th century visitations of Cornwall. It also tells me that the Sennen tree is in fact a branch.

I link into the Penrose of Sennen branch through William, son of the Bennett Penrose who married three times.

I have loads of resources here including some 19th century books, either original, facsimile, or on CD: so any questions, please ask. You have surely earned it!

The thing now is to find where Phillip appears, and his ancestors. Not just a question of popping down to my local library (in Yorkshire) or a Cornish Registry Office!

There are thousands of original documents held around the world in private or publically-owned collections - a few at Harvard.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/collections/special/manuscripts/deeds/deeds1.php

Some day the facts will emerge, when someone like you is carrying out further research.

Many thanks again

Chris

[cjnkira]

Hi Chris,
I'm glad you found this helpful.  Would you care to see the rest of my findings? It is lengthy, but in prose format - perhaps I can email it to you? I've traced the Sennen line through the eldest sons (wherever possible) from 1195 to the present.  There may be more clues for you to branch out from.
Also, as I've been trying to find out about Philip in Escalls, it turns out that there is/was a village of Escalls in Cornwall...?... I'm curious to find out if Escalls was related to the area surrounding Epernay, France.  Perhaps there are records to be had in Cornwall - especially who Philip Penros was aligned with that sent him to France, or perhaps who his parents were.  Perhaps they were the french connection?  My research is continuing - I believe we are looking for the same information.  Please let me know what you find, and I will share as well.
Cheers, Carrie

[cjnkira]

FYI - I have now found Escalles, France and am searching for records.  It is not a part of Epernay - it is Calais.  Hmm.  Is there a John of Gaunt (Plantagenet) connection? I know he was married to Isabella of Castile,  yet his many campaigns into France prior to this wedding may have brought Philip's father to Cornwall?  Far fetched, and yet, you never know... ?  Or perhaps I need to be researching the lists of William the Conqueror - it would make  sense that Philip's ancestor came over from Normandy with him.  There is a record of the Lord d'Escalles fighting.

Thanks for the offer of your records, etc.  I do appreciate it.

[Markund]

I know there is a branch of this family in Chile, South America. My great great grandmother was Vitalia Penros Bravo (in Chile we use both father and mother surname). Apparently her ancestor was Fernando Penros (names are traditionally translated to Spanish so his name was probably Ferdinand or Fernand), born in "Bretana" (Spanish word for Britain or Brittany, I'm not sure which of the two) in 1672; arrived to Chile more less in 1719. Established in the city of Chillán, where he died on October 2nd, 1754. Married María Garrido, and had issue:

- José Antonio, born in Chillán, married at the Parish of San Isidro, Santiago, to Beatriz Hidalgo, daughter of Lorenzo Hidalgo and Rosa de Orozco, with issue.
- María Josefa, born in Chillán and married there in 1745 to Rafael Hermosilla, with issue.

Source: Padre Luis de Roa, "EL REYNO DE CHILE, 1535-1810", page 835.

[Chris Penrose]

This is a link to a pretty good genealogy resource, that has piqued my interest:

http://horwitzfam.org/getperson.php?personID=I17621&tree=Complete

All the best

Chris

PS I still want to contact more rellies.