Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???

[aghadowey]

If you click on the link for the entry I posted, then click on the grave number it will show you the names of others buried in the same plot. You can then find more details about them.

Do you need more details on the Mullett family or did you just need the cemetery information?

[Vita Brevis]

Hoping still possible to request lookups for this cemetery.  I'm searching for a William & Mary Montgomery.  Unfortunately I have no dates but they may have been sometime between 1874 - 1915 possible age range 50-80yrs.

Any help appreciated.  VB

[aghadowey]

Hoping still possible to request lookups for this cemetery.  I'm searching for a William & Mary Montgomery.  Unfortunately I have no dates but they may have been sometime between 1874 - 1915 possible age range 50-80yrs.
Any help appreciated.  VB

Probably no replies because not enough information in your post.
You should be able to find the dates of death. 1901 & 1911 census both online. Death registrations up to 1921 for N.I. counties on Irish Genealogy site.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

[Vita Brevis]

Nope, absolutely no information about this couple other than they were named on a daughter church marriage record, the day before she converted to RC.  Mothers maiden name given a McKeown.  No marriage found, no obvious siblings to the daughter, no death that makes anything clear & same for census, they could have been dead by then.  All I know is that they lived in Belfast around 1874.  Was hoping, they may appear in a cemetery together and was perhaps worthchecking Shankhill.  It's been a brick wall for over 15 years.  Thanks. 

[aghadowey]

Nope, absolutely no information about this couple other than they were named on a daughter church marriage record, the day before she converted to RC.  Mothers maiden name given a McKeown.  No marriage found, no obvious siblings to the daughter, no death that makes anything clear & same for census, they could have been dead by then.  All I know is that they lived in Belfast around 1874.  Was hoping, they may appear in a cemetery together and was perhaps worthchecking Shankhill.  It's been a brick wall for over 15 years.  Thanks. 

You actually do know more than you'd posted previously- possible maiden name, etc.
What are the details from the daughter's 1874 marriage- there should be a civil record which might give an address, father's occupation, etc.
Approx. when was the daughter born? do census records (if available) give birthplace as Belfast or where?

[Vita Brevis]

Sorry for delayed reply.

Daughters marriage not relevant for two reasons
a)   Only baptism record is day before her marriage (convert) & searches only produce that date
b)   NO civil registration record of above marriage – Register “LOST” only church record                    available & no details of either father’s occupation

No marriage record found for her parents using identities given on daughter church marriage record
Unable to identify any other possible births for the parents as no marriage identified (Not Mary McKeown & Robert Montgomery 1853)
Believe parents also lived in Belfast alive at time of her marriage, insufficient information to identify on BSD
Two census records available for daughter, one says Belfast, second Antrim

So left trying to identify possible parents deaths in/around Belfast after daughter’s marriage as these would definitely be registered, or their burials which I am hoping would be together.   I suspect dates to be somewhere between 1874 & 1901–1911  (1915 would be pushing it)
I suspect the family were Presbyterian before daughter converted.

All above info identified 15years ago and cannot seem to find a way to break down this brick wall.  Any help is welcome.  Thanks VB

[aghadowey]

The daughter's marriage is relevant even if you haven't found a civil record.

It wasn't uncommon for bride/groom to be baptised in Catholic faith just before mixed marriage where the spouse is Catholic. Daughter may have been baptised in Presbyterian Church (or other Protestant church) as an infant or small child. Unfortunately not all church records survive and of those that do not are all online.

You still haven't given any indication as far as I can see of when daughter might have been born or even her name.

"named on a daughter church marriage record, the day before she converted to RC.  Mothers maiden name given a McKeown." and now "no marriage identified (Not Mary McKeown & Robert Montgomery 1853)."
Why have you eliminated the above marriage? is it merely because husband is Robert & not William as in marriage record? Since the priest probably didn't know the Montgomery family well William might be incorrect.

[Vita Brevis]

[quote
The daughter's marriage is relevant even if you haven't found a civil record.

Daughter may have been baptised in Presbyterian Church (or other Protestant church) as an infant or small child. Unfortunately not all church records survive and of those that do not are all online.[/quote]

I'm more than well aware of this & it is exactly why her marriage isn't relevant ... Nothing about her or her claimed family prior to her marriage is online. 

Of course I haven't eliminated the marriage of Robert & Mary.  However, nothing that I have found relating to this marriage indicates any connection to the person I am looking for.  Equally, I have a strong suscipion that the information provided by the bride at her baptism & marriage could be false and not just that her father may not be William, but also that her mother may not be Mary.  As for Mary McKeown, the only marriage I can find ... online to a Montgomery, is a Robert ... it establishes nothing since there are many Presbyterian records unavailable online, let alone hundreds of possible church doors to bang on to find the right people. 

It's hard enough trying to eliminate who she claimed were her parents never mind trying to prove that she was the daughter of others.  For goodness sake, she may not even have been born the name she claims to be.  I've had a hard enough time trying to cut through all this cloak & dagger stuff & untill I can eliminate her claimed parents & why, finding any other possibilities is futile.

After everything I have looked at, finding a death/burial record for two married people with the identities of those she has given doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable.  These details as claimed, must be more likely to find, if they existed, as they are post pre registration.  So why can't I find them?  Could it be for the same reason I cannot find four other relatives who's deaths were post registration, or perhaps they were all lies too?  Who knows, but somehow, I have to check out all the available online material first.  I don't think clouding other researchers minds with half baked possibilites helps.

So, that leaves eliminating a marriage of William & Mary, which would be terrific if one could be found and the same could be said for their burials.  I'm not trying to make information fit the scenario, I'm trying to establish if any of the info is factual. 

Given all the above, if this was one of your family members, given only the info transcribed on the church baptism & marriage records available online, what would you do differently? 

I'm not being sarcastic.  If you really want to help, then finding a burial for this couple would be my best start. after that, I'll be happy to give you the details I started with.

In the meantime, your interest is much appreciated and thank you.  VB

[majm]

[quote
The daughter's marriage is relevant even if you haven't found a civil record.

Daughter may have been baptised in Presbyterian Church (or other Protestant church) as an infant or small child. Unfortunately not all church records survive and of those that do not are all online.

I'm more than well aware of this & it is exactly why her marriage isn't relevant ... Nothing about her or her claimed family prior to her marriage is online. 

Of course I haven't eliminated the marriage of Robert & Mary.  However, nothing that I have found relating to this marriage indicates any connection to the person I am looking for.  Equally, I have a strong suscipion that the information provided by the bride at her baptism & marriage could be false and not just that her father may not be William, but also that her mother may not be Mary.  As for Mary McKeown, the only marriage I can find ... online to a Montgomery, is a Robert ... it establishes nothing since there are many Presbyterian records unavailable online, let alone hundreds of possible church doors to bang on to find the right people. 

It's hard enough trying to eliminate who she claimed were her parents never mind trying to prove that she was the daughter of others.  For goodness sake, she may not even have been born the name she claims to be.  I've had a hard enough time trying to cut through all this cloak & dagger stuff & untill I can eliminate her claimed parents & why, finding any other possibilities is futile.

After everything I have looked at, finding a death/burial record for two married people with the identities of those she has given doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable.  These details as claimed, must be more likely to find, if they existed, as they are post pre registration.  So why can't I find them?  Could it be for the same reason I cannot find four other relatives who's deaths were post registration, or perhaps they were all lies too?  Who knows, but somehow, I have to check out all the available online material first.  I don't think clouding other researchers minds with half baked possibilites helps.

So, that leaves eliminating a marriage of William & Mary, which would be terrific if one could be found and the same could be said for their burials.  I'm not trying to make information fit the scenario, I'm trying to establish if any of the info is factual. 

Given all the above, if this was one of your family members, given only the info transcribed on the church baptism & marriage records available online, what would you do differently? 

I'm not being sarcastic.  If you really want to help, then finding a burial for this couple would be my best start. after that, I'll be happy to give you the details I started with.

In the meantime, your interest is much appreciated and thank you.  VB
[/quote]

Hi,

I am in NSW Australia,  and have a long history of searching out my NSW families, many of them came out from Ireland in the 1800s.  My interest in family history predates online searches by decades.... but the concept of searching, finding, considering, examining, validating, and learning about our ancestors is the same.  It is a shared task.  So may I mention that sometimes I resolved long standing issues by allowing fresh eyes to minutely inspect and reconcile each piece of information provided on every document in front of me.   

Perhaps if you were to type up your own transcription of the marriage record,  and share it on RChat,  then the people reading this thread may find the spare moments in their lives to help you with this long standing obstacle.

JM