Thomas Stanton Thatcher Born:1847 in Chelsea?

[pteverett001]

After some kind help previously on this board I have got hold of the marriage certificate for my great great grandparents Thomas Stanton Thatcher and Sarah Dutton Bailey.

The marriage certificate notes that Thomas was illegitimate and I am having trouble finding details for obtaining his birth certificate. His father was Thomas Stanton, a Baker, and they were living in Chelsea when they got married.

However I am not sure whether his birth would be registered under Stanton Thatcher, or just Stanton, or Thatcher which I assume was his mothers name?

I have found a Thomas Stanton, a baker in Chelsea, in the 1851 census, but it looks like he was married after the birth of Thomas, presumably to a different woman. All the children noted, which doesnt include this Thomas, are aged after his DOB.

If anyone can help with pinning down Thomas Stanton Thatcher's birth it would be much appreciated.

The other question I have refers to Sarah Dutton Bailey. Given her father is noted on the marriage cert as George William Bailey, does her name imply that she was also illegitimate even though this is not mentioned on the marriage cert?

I hope all that makes sense, please let me know if it doesn't.

Thanks

Paul

[tressle]

Hi Paul

Can you just clarify what it said on the marriage certificate for Thomas as I am curious about it stating he was illegitimate, as far as I know english marriage certificates don't usually state this kind of information.  If it says he was illegitimate where have you got his father's name from - Thomas Stanton the baker.

George William Bailey is the same name as Sarah Dutton Bailey, so that does not particularly imply she was illegitimate if she has named a father on her marriage certificate with the same surname as herself.  The Dutton could be her mother's maiden name or some other family name.

Tressle

[pteverett001]

Hi Tressle

Thanks for the response to my post.

I am no expert on marriage certs but this one clearly has the word illegitimate under Thomas Stanton Thatchers name on the certificate, but it also shows his fathers name and occupation. There is though a * by the word and another over the fathers name with something written that is illegible. It says "this is a ca.... c...." as far as I can make out.

It sounds very odd to by modern standards but maybe it was acceptable in the mid 19th century?

Paul

[tressle]

Hi Paul

I have had a look at the marriage certificate now and see where it says illegitimate on the margin of the certificate

Tressle

adding after your post. - it is helpful that they decided to put this and very honest as well.

[tressle]

This is the only one I can find

Thomas Stanton, Q4 1846 Chelsea, Volume:3 Page:58

There is a Thomas Thatcher born Chelsea with his grandparents on the 1851 and 1861 census but I cannot find a Thomas Thatcher registration (in chelsea).

Tressle

[jennifer c]

modified

Could this be him in 1851   1473/fol. 408  5 Little Bleneim Street Chelsea

Thomas Thatcher 5 grandson born Chelsea
with his grandparents James & Rebecca Thatcher

Tantalizing name at no.6 on previous page ?ailey.

Jennifer

[jennifer c]

Hi Tressle have you got the ref for 1861, I can not spot him?

Jennifer

[Valda]

Hi

The answer may be neither since no fine was put in place for the none registration of births until 1875. The likeliest births to not be registered were illegitimate ones. If there was a registration then it could be in either surname. There were no real checks in the system until after the Second World War so though the birth should have been registered as an illegitimate one - in the surname Thatcher, all that was needed for a legitimate birth registration was for the mother to bluff it out with the registrar. If she wasn't known to the registrar, which would be likely in a city the size of London, then the birth could very well have been registered in the surname Stanton as a legitimate birth.

Thomas consistently gives his birth year on censuses as circa 1846/7 (depending on when his birthday was in relation to census night) and Chelsea as his place of birth. There are no Thomas Thatcher birth registrations in Chelsea registration district in these two years but there is a Thomas Stanton birth registration, which presumably is why you are asking the question.

Births Dec 1846  Stanton  Thomas    Chelsea  3 58

Thomas appears with his Thatcher grandparents James and Rebecca on the 1851 and 1861 census in Chelsea. James was a carpenter born in Walworth.

Baptism Christ Church, St Luke Chelsea 6th December 1846
Thomas Thatcher son of Thomas and Sarah Thatcher, 1? ? Street, father's occupation baker

Baptism 9 Sep 1827 St George the Martyr Southwark born 23rd June 1827
Sarah Thatcher parents James Joseph and Rebecca, Cottage Place, Lyon Street, Kent Road, father's occupation carpenter.

Deaths Jun 1866  
Thatcher  James J  63  Chelsea  1a 170



Regards

Valda

[pteverett001]

Thanks Valda, Jennifer and Tressle, thats very helpful and certainly points me in the right direction. I will get a copy of the birth cert Valda mentioned and hope thats him.

Paul