still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana

[majm]

Hi there, Leo,

Like you, I am not anywhere near Tasmania.  In fact, I live around 1700 kms from there.  I am not related to anyone mentioned in the three Wiggy threads, but I am not currently still looking for anyone mentioned in those threads. 

I do note that on a submitted tree, there's mention that Catharine was twice married, firstly in 1816 to a Thomas Jnr Ransom, and then in 1830 to Frederick.  Catharine's relationship to both her children (Ann and Thomas) is noted on that tree as "step-children".  Ann's birth year is noted there as 1817, and Thomas as 1821. 

In my notes I have some details about their possible identities and I will post that information shortly, simply by modifying this post.

MODIFYING:

By Dec 1820, Thomas Ransom was operating Joiners Arms ... there was a coroners inquest there in early Dec 1820 on a William Cobb who left a wife and two children "wholly unprovided for".  mentioned in the newspapers about 9 Dec 1820.

Short version of long story.  Cobb was convict, his UX was Judith?Johanna/Hanna Conway (Judy Cowy on 1820 VDL muster).. She married again, 1823, 2nd husband was a James LOWE ... stayed in VDL ... but there's no sighting of the two orphaned children, OR of her third child, who was baptised in May 1821. 

Possible Scenerio
Judith Conway  PJ to VDL late 1816 ish, meets Cobb say 1817, and has a daughter and/or a son by him.  perhaps Ann in 1818, and Thomas earlier than Nov 1820, perhaps actually Nov 1819.  William Cobb has accident, passes, distraught widow gives up her two children to Thomas Ransom as she is already carrying another child by Cobb.  Child was a boy, and baptised with the latinised name for William COBB ... Guielli etc.   Rev'd Knopwood baptises C C Mc N's "son" (ie Cobb's son by Judith Conway) because that's part of his responsibilities, and knows full well that Thomas Ransom and C C Mc N will care for both the two children cause perhaps Thomas Ransom followed up and organised the whip around to provide Judith Conway with accomodation, food clothing etc   

I have NOT found the three children that Judy Conway had with William Cobb (some submitted trees list the youngest, but not the  others) ...  TWO VDL children born same era as Ann Ransom and Thomas McNally.


PS, by mid 1822 the population of VDL was only around 8000, (HTG Saturday 8 June 1822) so two orphaned children in Hobart Town should be easier to find than C C McN ...on the 1822 Muster ... surely. 

Cheers,  JM

[lstieglitz]

justmoi,
tx for this summing-up and your hypotheses (right English ?). If I understand you right, were these children "adopted"or "attended" by T.R., who had in the same time his relationship with C C McN. They grew up with this "parents" and their real parents were not more known. This would many things explain. Is this provable ? Though we can assume the character of Thomas Ransom, this could be very possible, a JP, who won a high sympathetic "standing" in this new land ... just as well his wife CC ... and my xxguncle Freddy had great luck with his choice.
Leo, ca. 18.000 km

[majm]

Hi there,

The possible scenerio (hypotheses) that I offered is simply one of many possibilities that I had thought may be worthwhile following up, particularly through the 1822 Muster records.

I tend to avoid "submitted" trees, particularly when there's no citations/references that can be easily checked, but I did notice that there were several trees for Catharine Christiana Mc Nally on various websites, indicating "step" children relationships between her and Ann and Thomas.  I think the following link is one of those trees.  Perhaps you or Wiggy may be interested in following up by searching for a family history researcher for the Cobb line. 

Here's the information from one of those submitted trees showing the step relationship

Self             Catherine Christiana MCNALLY abt 1790  1857 Fingal, Tasmania, Australia 67
Husband      Thomas RANSOM abt 1780  1829 Tasmania, Australia 49
Husband      Frederick Lewis Ludwig Von STIEGLITZ 13 Oct 1803 Eglish, Armagh, Ireland 14 May 1866 Armagh, Ireland 62
Step Daughter Anne RANSOM 1817  01 Oct 1892 Launceston, Tasmania, Australia 75
Step Son Thomas RANSOM abt 1821  20 Mar 1904 Tasmania, Australia 83

Here's the shrunken link to that online submission ...  its not verified, so I leave it up to you or Wiggy or other RChatters to follow up each aspect separately, to determine which piece/pieces of information are in the public records.   The formal adoption processes that exist in our lives, simply did not exist back in the early 19th century so that I doubt if there's any ONE specific record that will confirm or eliminate my suggested scenerio.  But I do think it could be worthwhile following up, perhaps with a separate thread here on RChat.

   
http://www.rootschat.com/links/087h/

Cheers,  JM

[Wiggy]

Vale David 8/04/2010.   He'll be missed by so many.

Wiggy

[Wiggy]

Just adding a little extra to the puzzle!

After some digging and help on the London board, it transpires that Thomas's first wife, Elizabeth, outlived him by seven years, and didn't remarry, and his daughter Magdalen Jane was also still alive  (married 1813)  throughout his life time. I wonder if Thomas was in touch with his English family - M Jane could write well though Elizabeth couldn't.
There was a letter waiting for Thomas when he arrived back in Sydney from Norfolk Island in 1814 - from the powers that be telling him of his land grant in VDL, or thanking him for his work, or . . . - or from home telling him of M Jane's marriage maybe.    We'll never know!

About Ann, the other daughter in England, we don't know - can't get a handle on her at all!    I wonder would Thomas have felt himself still married to Elizabeth, in spite of his liaison with Catharine.     

Just a thought, and doesn't get the puzzle solved - interesting that's all.

Wiggy

[regross]

Wiggy,

Perhaps it is an explanation for the impediment to the marraige between Thomas and Catharine.

Way out of line is the ealier postulated notion that Catharine was his daughter.  Unmarreid and pregnant and needing shelter. Sounds possible but not probable.

Think we need to find out more about Ann.
Could she also have been convicted and transported?
Could she have married a McNally?
Could she have married a soldier and accompanied him to Austalia and beenn left behind when the regiment returned to London?

All good questions but will neede time to research and find answers.

Nice find though it leaves unanswered questions still

Robyn

[Wiggy]

Hi Robyn,

Welcome back!

Don't think that will work - Ann herself is too old to be this lady - she was the older of the two girls born, 1780.

Good thought though!     Those 'boys' helping me with 'Thomas in London' have found out lots of things!  - Elizabeth seems to have been the daughter of an escaped Huguenot family amongst other things!   I've learnt quite a bit about conditions in East London. 

None of it helps with Catharine but it all adds background to the picture - makes it more interesting for those of us descended from Thomas.  (we like to maintain!)

Wiggy   

[regross]

Wiggy

 Is Anne old enough to be Catharine's mother? (women had children as young 12 and 13 then)

Robyn

[Wiggy]

Pushing it!!  She would have been 9 or 10!!    Really don't think that will wash!   I had thought of that but - no, I don't think so.   

It also appears that those girls went to school - or at least learnt to write - and they didn't learn that from their mother!   Magdalen Jane (she was known as Jane in the census records) ended up in the French Hospital in London so I think they might have adhered to their Huguenot roots - which to my mind makes a child for Ann at that early age even more unlikely, even though mistakes do happen.

(We thought we'd found Ann's marriage but it turned out not to be - and one of the clues was that Jane could write so well, and the marriage we had for Ann showed her as illiterate - further research showed different parents for the one we'd found - I have been looking for an unmarried Ann as we can't find a marriage record for her to date.    I can't locate her yet - but as you well know the records are hard to find for that time.) 

Wiggy