Bad press for heir hunters

[Nick29]

Don't you think that heir hunters are right to withhold the information that may have cost them a lot of money to find ?

[syzygy]

Don't you think that heir hunters are right to withhold the information that may have cost them a lot of money to find ?

When it comes to situations when they know how much they will gain from an agreement whilst the other party is signing blindly I not sure that is right.

I appreciate that work has been done and a fair price should be paid (Of course heir hunters need to turn a profit, else we wouldn't have any!). My concern is over the high percentage commission on larger estates, an area open to abuse, and the area the tabloids are focussing on.

Do the heir hunter firms itemise their 'work' to the beneficiaries after the event? I would imagine any expenses have to be fully accounted (receipts etc.), but what about the general day to day work?

[violeign]

The firm that Fraser&Fraser alludes to in his post are not only basing their 'campaign' on outdated and exaggerated information about the working practices of the rest of the entire industry (ie that heir hunting firms are always aware of the value of an estate, fees are routinely charged at 40% or that the name of the deceased is witheld from beneficiaries) but as Fraser&Fraser points out a lot of their own working practices are not beyond scrutiny - outsourcing research to mention only one...

[violeign]

Don't you think that heir hunters are right to withhold the information that may have cost them a lot of money to find ?

When it comes to situations when they know how much they will gain from an agreement whilst the other party is signing blindly I not sure that is right.

I appreciate that work has been done and a fair price should be paid (Of course heir hunters need to turn a profit, else we wouldn't have any!). My concern is over the high percentage commission on larger estates, an area open to abuse, and the area the tabloids are focussing on.

Do the heir hunter firms itemise their 'work' to the beneficiaries after the event? I would imagine any expenses have to be fully accounted (receipts etc.), but what about the general day to day work?

The number of cases where the value of the estate is known is pretty small, and in those cases most of the major heir hunting firms offer a choice of payment methods from % to time-spent.

[syzygy]

Don't you think that heir hunters are right to withhold the information that may have cost them a lot of money to find ?

When it comes to situations when they know how much they will gain from an agreement whilst the other party is signing blindly I not sure that is right.

I appreciate that work has been done and a fair price should be paid (Of course heir hunters need to turn a profit, else we wouldn't have any!). My concern is over the high percentage commission on larger estates, an area open to abuse, and the area the tabloids are focussing on.

Do the heir hunter firms itemise their 'work' to the beneficiaries after the event? I would imagine any expenses have to be fully accounted (receipts etc.), but what about the general day to day work?

The number of cases where the value of the estate is known is pretty small, and in those cases most of the major heir hunting firms offer a choice of payment methods from % to time-spent.

So, like any other industry, there are always going to be 'Cowboys', 'Rogue Traders' etc. As I mentioned earlier it is likely to be these smaller companies causing the problems, going for the big hit!

[FraserandFraser]

Just in the last 5 years, our agreements have been to court 4 times (not because some one is trying to get out of or to challenge them), one of those courts it the highest in the land, The House of Lords. The agreement has also been seen by several lawyers, including a QC who was asked to give us a legal opinion on the existing agreement, our practice and any possible improvements.
As part of our ISO requirements we have a fully documented procedure, that is followed in all cases. The contract is for the supply of information, and does not have any grounds for a firm to show its expenses or costs. Obviously when billing on a time spent bases then a full brake down is required.

To make matters clear, the current contract used by most firms is 1 page of single sided  A4, written in plain English, there is no small print or hidden clauses F&F use a font size of 12 or 13. I don't think the agreement could be any clearer. We suggest that if an heir want they should take independent legal advice. when a contract is signed on the spot, a second cancellation form is signed by F&F and left with the heir this is in the same font size as the agreement (by law). for every document signed or taken away a carbon copy is also left.

I am not trying to say that there is no room for improvement in the way we work but the you would be hard pushed to come in a pick huge holes in our operation or to challenge the legality of an agreement.

[Nick29]

So, like any other industry, there are always going to be 'Cowboys', 'Rogue Traders' etc. As I mentioned earlier it is likely to be these smaller companies causing the problems, going for the big hit!

Yes, it is, but not necessarily from their charges.  I think my sister and I were victims of a rogue small company, who (allegedly) managed to completely fail to find my sister and myself when searching for heirs for our-half brother, even though my sister's name was on our father's death certificate.  I am totally sure that this smaller heir hunter company knew that if they approached us we would know exactly who it was that had died, and we would not need their services, so they conveniently found some cousins instead, who were not able to guess the identity of the person that had died. 

The problem is that it would be difficult to prove that this was a deliberate act, and not just negligence.  If we were to take the heir hunters company to court, they would probably have no insurance, and if the court award was big enough, it's quite likely that they would just declare themselves bankrupt and fold the company.  I spoke to Neil Fraser about this (it was he who told me which company had dealt with the case, because that in itself is not easy to find out), and he said that F & F have insurance that would cover this sort of thing, and that he wanted to see legislation to force companies to have this insurance, because at the moment it is optional.

Fortunately in our case the cousins did take out Missing Beneficiary Insurance which paid us out, but in the end we had to settle for less than the actual value of the estate, because the beneficiaries had under-insured themselves, but the actual difference was not big enough to take court action over.  Ironically, F & F had not originally persued my half-brother's estate, because at the time it didn't look valuable enough to pay their costs (although subsequently it was found to be a lot more than expected, because my half-brother had money from insurances and pensions stashed away).

I applaud Neil Fraser's frankness on this subject, and I hope that one day there may be more regulation so that the reputation of the more established  companies are not tarnished by the actions of a few cowboy companies.

[syzygy]

Just in the last 5 years, our agreements have been to court 4 times (not because some one is trying to get out of or to challenge them), one of those courts it the highest in the land, The House of Lords. The agreement has also been seen by several lawyers, including a QC how was asked to give us a legal opinion on the existing agreement, our practice and any possible improvements.
As part of our ISO requirements we have a fully documented procedure, that is followed in all cases. The contract is for the supply of information, and does not have any grounds for a firm to show its expenses or costs. Obviously when billing on a time spent bases then a full brake down is required.

To make matters clear, the current contract used by most firms is 1 page of single sided  A4, written in plain English, there is no small print or hidden clauses F&F use a font size of 12 or 13. I don't think the agreement could be any clearer. We suggest that if an heir want they should take independent legal advice. when a contract is signed on the spot, a second cancellation form is signed by F&F and left with the heir this is in the same font size as the agreement (by law). for every document signed or taken away a carbon copy is also left.

I am not trying to say that there is no room for improvement in the way we work but the you would be hard pushed to come in a pick huge holes in our operation or to challenge the legality of an agreement.

I'm not suggesting F&F are doing anything illegal. I am talking across the whole industry.

I'm thinking more when someone has signed up to an agreement, with a quite large commission. At the time they do not know how much the may inherit, but may be thinking, as I'm sure many do, that say 60% of something is better than nothing. At a later date they find out the estate is quite large. OK 60% of a large settlement is even better than 60% of nothing, but then realise the heir hunter fee which could easily be 6 figures if, for example, the estate involved selling a house.

At this point is is well past the cooling of period, Had the beneficiary  known of the potential size of the fee they would liely have negotiated, the least they would expect a clear breakdown of why the fee is so high.

In many cases the heir hunter will know the size of the estate before asking people to sign agreements. Their research in tracking down the beneficiaries may show property for example, if they have been appointed by a solicitor or if the deceased is living in Scotland where estate values are still published. These are the agreements I would be concerned about, if not illegal, certainly mis-balanced.

[syzygy]

I applaud Neil Fraser's frankness on this subject, and I hope that one day there may be more regulation so that the reputation of the more established  companies are not tarnished by the actions of a few cowboy companies.

Me too, When people are approached by heir hunters it is very likely they have never been in the situation before. They have no life experience on how to handle themselves. It's not like employing a builder where you will know what they do or can ask a friend and have a good idea about what you are going into (Yes, I know there are loads of 'cowboys' there too).

The information here given is invaluable should they come knocking.