Stuck at James Mockler/Jimmy Dee

[rosie99]

Thanks lizdb 


I was wondering if he was Catherines son prior to her marriage 

Rosie

[rosie99]

[li]A family bible was discovered and gave a date of birth of 14th July 1909, a request was made to the registry offices again and one James born on that day was found - the father was listed and WASN'T his father (another James Mockler) so this has been initially dismissed.  The registrar wouldn't give me the name unless I stumped up cash[/li]

If the family bible gives the date of birth as 14th July 1909  and the certificate they found had this birthdate with a father James why do you think it is wrong .... it's not as though Mockler is a common name 

Rosie

[SMockler]

Will try and answer all your questions . . .

1. James Mockler Elder was single in the 1911 census, I can't find a record of a marriage taking place after this date

2. James Dee and Catherine Mockler had been married for 4 years at the time of the 1911 census

3. James Mockler Junior is listed as the Boarder son in the 1911 census, the boarder being James Mockler Elder

4. The birth certificate I found of a James Wildcardsurname born on the 14th July 1909 has a father listed that ISN'T James Mockler so it was dismissed.  The registry office would only confirm that the father listed did not match my search criteria so I don't know what the name of the father actually is or the name of the boy born.  I've not bought it yet as I don't see much point as the fathers don't match.  Sorry if this wasn't clear.

[SMockler]

At some point you will have to "stump up cash" or you will not solve this!
Geting the cert for the James with the exact birth date that matched the family bible might not have been such a bad idea (though I cant see it in the birth indexes). Too much of a coincidence to have exactly the right name and the right birthdate I would have thought! Perhaps dad was known by a middle name or something so the name on the cert didnt exactly match "James" ....

I'm more than happy to spend money if required, it's just when you've been made redundant, have one 11 month old and another on the way every £7 counts so I want to be 100% sure I'm not wasting my money when I order a certificate. 

The child born on that date was in Guisborough, a nearby district but NOT where it's listed as him being born in the census (Stockton on Tees)

His first name is James, the surname is a secret held by the registry office

They confirmed the father wasn't a Mockler, James or otherwise and that it wasn't a Dee, James or otherwise so it could well just be a random birth certificate that happens to share two pieces of information with the person I'm looking for

Until I've exhausted every other avenue I won't purchase it as I don't really see how it will help me at the moment.

[SMockler]

I've also double checked the whole of the BMD for a mis-spelling of Mockler (Muckler/Mackler etc) to see if there was maybe a James Mockler registered elsewhere with a different spelling.

That's not turned up any results either 

I hope someone can help.

[lizdb]

Until I've exhausted every other avenue I won't purchase it as I don't really see how it will help me at the moment.

Only that, as you have said yourself, it looks like he wasnt registered under Mockler. All searching there has proved fruitless, so in order to stand any chance of solving it you will need to think outside the Mockler box.

Other ideas  -

I have tried looking for a death for James senior (thats why I asked his age) but didnt have any success
Do you know when he died?
Looking for a will would be a good move, he could well have remebered his son, and might give more info.
Or, if James jnr was brought up by the Dees, then maybe getting their Wills might be equally as good or better - again they might mention John jnr.

Does the family bible give any more clues? Is the child simply called James Mockler there? no middle name, no alternative surname, no mention of a mother? Is he definitely recorded in the Bible as son of James senior, a single guy?

[SMockler]

Until I've exhausted every other avenue I won't purchase it as I don't really see how it will help me at the moment.

Only that, as you have said yourself, it looks like he wasnt registered under Mockler. All searching there has proved fruitless, so in order to stand any chance of solving it you will need to think outside the Mockler box.

Oh most definitely I do need to rethink (as I said, he was most likely registered under his mothers name so will be James Mothersname.  At this point, getting a birth certificate of a boy that is called James, born in a different yet close area with parents named Mr & Mrs Smith just seems a bit pointless as it won't really give me any further information to go on. . .

The family bible is pretty useless really.  We have no idea where it's come from.  From the age, we suspect that it was bought for James Mockler Jnr and his wife but the handwriting is their daughter in law.  It doesn't give full dates for any of the family and simply states Mum, Dad, Nan, etc.  Meaning that the date of birth could be inaccurate.  No details are given of anyone's parentage.  Actually scrap that!  I don't have the family bible so I rang the person that does to double check everything and it appears they gave me duff information.  Only James Mockler Jnrs date of death was listed (he's down as Dad) no birth date at all.  The birth date I've been given is from memory only.  It would be so much easier if people gave you concise info!  That's the only information about him in there, simply the name Dad and his date of death.

He's recorded on the 1911 census as the son of James Mockler Elder also, on the marriage certificate of James Mockler Jnr his father is listed as James Mockler (deceased - I'm pretty sure I've found his death certificate, with his death being in 1922, this is next on my list to purchase)

I will have to research how to get hold of wills now, I'm sure the information will be on here somewhere!  Also, I was thinking about looking to see if he's changed his name by deed poll at some point i.e. if he found out he was registered as a different name and officially changed his name to that of his fathers.  Although I've got no idea where to start there either - beginners guides are us I think!

Thank you so much for your continued help with this - it's always useful to bounce ideas!

[lizdb]

oK, forget the date in the family bible!

Info on Wills is all on here -
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm

If you are in or near or can get to London then the index can be searched free at the Probate place in Holborn - so that can save a few pennies - otherwise a search for a few years is included in the price you pay and then you get the Will if there is one.
I have always searched myself and then only sent for one if I know there is one! 
Anyway all info on the website

James Mockler seniors death cert looks like it might be worth a look when finances permit - IF the informant is James junior it might at least show they were still in touch. Likewise if the Dees it would show he was still in touch with them. I am not sure it will give any more details about James juniors birth, though.

You said you'd traced James M senior back through the censuses. Where was he in 1901, I know that is still some time before James jnrs birth ... but he didnt have a girl in tow then at all did he?

Frustrating one isnt it.


I would forget the deed poll thing. You can call yourself what you like, few people actually go to the bother of Deed Poll.
And we know from censuses that James senior went through life with the same name. James junior may well have used the name Dee if he was brought up by them, but unlikely to have used Deed Poll to change it, esp as reverted to his 'Dads' name as an adult.

We have two rererences to James snr being his dad One is the marriage cert, but if J jnr had been brought up by othrs this may only be based on what he was told. The other is 1911 census. Presumably it was James Dee who completed the census schedule.
Exactly how did he describe the Jameses?
Was James senior 'brother in law'
And little James 'nephew'
I think you implied it was purely 'lodger' for J sen, but what about 3 yr old little J?

[carol8353]

IF you search Free BMD for Stockton births of anyone called James in the Sept 1/4 of 1909(that would cover 14th July) you only get 2 who haven't a middle name.

James Moore and James Shires/Shirks.

Of course as James Dee's name is also James-young James Mockler may have put that down as his dads' name on his marriage cert if that's who brought him up.

Carol

PS what a lot of James's