1901 census Glasgow

[Yorky]

Hello

I understand that institutions were enumerated seperately from households.

I am seeking details of a lady who was a nun in the Convent of the Good Shepherd, Tollcross,Glasgow.   Her surname I believe was Cairns. First name ?.   She was the sister of my husband's paternal grandfather.  We are having real trouble pinpointing his birth.   Even though he declares the place to be Greenock ( shown on 1911 English census) his birth details are not in those registers which have been checked for me by a GWSFHS member.

I would like to be able to see the full entry for the convent.   Does anyone know please what the charge would be for Glasgow Archives to get this for me.   

Any advice would be very much appreciated.   

Many thanks
Yorky(Kath)

[MonicaL]

Hi Kath

There are 417 entries showing for the Convent of the Good Shepherd at Dalbeth, Tollcross in 1901. The lion share of the entries are for inmates/school children. Can't see any entries for Cairns and variants 

Might be worth you posting again details of your husband's grandfather?

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Kath

Is hubby's grandfather a Peter Cairns showing as born Greenock and living in Sunderland in 1911? His birth year there is showing as c. 1866. As you know, census ages can be unreliable.

Have you been able to find Peter's marriage (was it to Annie Fordy in 1903 in Sunderland?) as at least this would let you confirm his father's name.

There is only one Peter Cairns showing on IGI as born in Greenock anywhere near his birth year:

PETER CAIRNS Birth: 29 AUG 1862 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock
Parents: JOHN CAIRNS and MARY RILEY

One other child shows as born to this couple, Joseph in 1859 Greenock. I am wondering whether this is the family in 1861 before Peter was born. This is messy transcript as you can see:

John Cairus 42, Musician b. Ireland
Mary Cairus 40 b. Ireland
Bridget Cairus 18, Cotton Mill Worker b. Ireland
Elizabeth Cairus 12 b. Greenock, Renfrewshire
Joseph Cairus 2 b. Greenock, Renfrewshire

Address: Split Close, Greenock Middle

Monica 

[capricorn]

I wondered if his name was Robert Donald Cairns, born 1877/1878 Greenock and in England 1911 census.

[Yorky]

Thank Monica and Capricorn for your replies.

Capricorn - He is definitely known as Peter to his family and appears as such on birth registratiions of all his children. With the difficulty pinpointing his birth we have wondered if he was registered with different first names.

Monica - I never expected a respondent to have looked at the 1901 entry for the convent.   Thank you.

Peter did marry Annie Fordy in Sunderland in Feb 1903.  He was 37 she 22.    His father shown as Thomas Cairns, deceased, shoemaker.   We have no idea what Peter's mother was called.   

On 1901 Sunderland census Peter is a lodger with an aunt and uncle of Annie Fordy.  His age given as 36.   If he was precise in giving both these ages as age last birthday I calculated that he was born in the first quarter of 1865.    He died in Jan 1953.   His daughter gave 88 as his age.   1 year out on my calculations but near enough not to cause a big rethink.

Peter had 3 brothers and 2 sisters.   Supposedly all Scottish born.  Not sure what the order is or any names.    There is however a story that Peter was carrying a younger brother on his back while rushing home in a storm when lightning struck and the child on his back was killed.   This incident affected Peter greatly as he felt that it was his fault.      What period this was in we do not know.

Another story is that the children were orphaned because of a death from influenza.     We have wondered if Peter's mother had two marriages, the second being to Thomas Cairns.     If Peter was of the first marriage he could have been raised by a Thomas Cairns and always known by that name.

The children were taken in to the church.   Surviving brothers became priests and the 2 sisters became nuns.   One of these was definitely in Dalbeth convent in early 1940s because my mother in law went to visit her on Peter's behalf.   

This nun was very elderly then.   But as my ma in law was only about  30 herself anyone over 60 would seem so maybe.

Peter was having any of the going to train for the priesthood and supposedly went to sea.     Another story is that he was in the army, possibly Black Watch,  and went to the Boer War.      These stories are coming from different sections of the present descendants of Peter and it would be a miracle if any of them prove to be true.

It was a long shot on my part that the nun would be at Dalbeth in 1901.     However it would be interesting to know if any of the nuns listed in 1901 were born say between 1855 and 1875 in Scotland.    I could do a search on those surnames on the basis that maybe there was an earlier marriage.

What do you think I should do with this .

Cheersand many thanks

Kath

[MonicaL]

Hi Kath

Just a couple of bits and pieces for now.

The only Thomas Cairns that I can find to date who was a shoemaker by trade, shows up in Perth Prison in 1871 (can't tell from the transcript his marital status). From NAS, these are numerous references to him. You can search here www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/, just insert Thomas Cairns as an exact phrase. He looks to have been Glasgow born c. 1841 and also had an alias of James Wilson....

Regarding a possible time for Peter at sea. There is one entry in the 1891 census for a Peter Cairns b. Glasgow c. 1864 who shows up as crew on the 'State of Georgia', probably in Glasgow at the time picking up passengers for sailings to the US (from what I can see of the history of this ship).

Can't see anything regarding possible military career as yet. Interestingly, there was an entry for a Peter Cairns born in Greenock showing but likely someone born much earlier given the date showing as reference, see http://tiny123.com/1lds (I've shrunk the link!).

I'll keep looking 

Monica

[Yorky]

Hello again Monica

I have just had a phone chat with another  descendant of Peter.   She found the Perth prison census and has investiagted the details of Thomas Cairns but  feels there is no connection.   Perhaps I should do it myself to make sure.

I have seen a Royal Naval record for a Peter who was born later than mine and the birthplace did not seem likely anyway.

Speak again later and thanks for all your help with this. It is amazing.

Kath

[MonicaL]

Just trying to find clues on potential names for Peter's mother. If Peter followed Scottish naming pattern, likely he called one of his daughters in memory of her. From my general searches on the 1911 entry, I could see a Nellie and Mary, also a Thomas.

Have you got Annie's parents' names and also the names of the early born children?

Monica

[Yorky]

Monica

I have also thought about the naming tradition.    Peter and Annies children were in birth order.

Ellen( Nellie) born 1902 - before they married.   An aunt of Annies was Ellen.  The name is also in that line in 2 previous generations before the aunt.

Mary - born 1903.   Annie's mother and her mother were Mary.

Thomas - eldest son - after Peter's dad itwould seem.

Felix - second son - after Annie's dad -Felix Fordy

John  1910 - My Father in law - Felix was the son of John Fordy.

Peter 1912 - I have assumed he was named after his father.

Leo - 1914 - this name has not appeared in the Fordy line.   It does not appear on Scotlands People as far as I can see.  I looked at the Catholic registers with no result nor are there any results in post 1854 BMDs.   No idea where this name is from.    IGI returns nothing.

Ann - 1916 - Named after her mother it seems.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.   From your experience do you think it is solvable.

Kath