William Thomas CUTHBERT born Ipswich

[Jacq]

Thank you for replying. I'm actually doing this family research for my son-in-law who is a gt gt gt grandson of William Thomas Cuthbert.
There were actually four Cuthbert children in Cosford Workhouse in the 1841 census; Mary Ann aged 15, James aged 9, Charlotte aged 7 and William also given as 7.  They may or may not have been related to each other. In 1851 I believe William is the one living with Charles and Catherine. I know it says he's their son, but I think he may have been Charles' brother.   Charles would only have been 17 when William was born. I have no proof of this, of course.  Charles and the Mary Ann Cuthbert (from the previous census) were brother and sister.  Their parents were Charles Cuthbert and Susanna nee Cook.  Charles was baptised in Cosford Workhouse 11 Aug 1819. Mary Ann was baptised 26 Nov 1826 at St.Clement's Church, Ispwich.
So...no further forward really!

[Mystic Manaia]

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, he is proving a hard man to find the roots of.  My gut feeling is he is the one in the Cosford home and maybe the William baptised there in 1837.  I think we need to try and get the baptism details to rule him out.  I don't think he is the son showing with Charles as the census was taken after his birthday that year, so he would be 15 not 16, although maybe he wasn't sure what year he was born. I think we need to try and get info on James, Mary Ann and Charlotte, who were in the home with him, and this might lead us to more info. 
You said you heard he lived with an older brother, do you know any more on his background before he married Jane?  I think he probably met Jane through her brothers Charles and George, as they worked in the brickfields in Darfield and Charles appears to have also worked as a bricklayers labourer.
I am descended from Alice Jane Cuthbert, through Violdet Mildred Carruthers.  What line does your son-in-law come down from?
I have quite a bit of info. on the Hoare family, if you want it and also did you find the 2 children William and Jane had in the UK before they came to NZ that died over there?  Their names were William and Alice and no doubt you have Beatrice who died soon after their arrival in NZ.
If I find out anything more, I will let you know. 

[Jacq]

The William baptised in the Cosford Workhouse was the son of Mary.  Don't forget that ages shown in censuses are notoriously wrong!
My son-in-law is descended from Francis James Cuthbert (gt gt grandfather), then Lewis Cuthbert (gt grandfather), then Ada Maude Cuthbert (grandmother).
Yes, I did find the three children who died.
No, I nothing nothing else of William before his marriage. Only what Ada told me about him being raised by his brother.

[KTB]

Hi "Jacq", "Mystic Manaia" etc,
I am a gt-gt-grandson of William Thomas CUTHBERT and Jane Mazella CUTHBERT née HOARE and have a free website on them which if you haven't seen is at http://www.keithblayney.com/Blayney/Cuthbert.html with a password required for "living" members, obtainable for any family member by contacting me kblayney@ihug.co.nz (rather than in an open forum like this).
Even if you have looked at this before, I have been regularly upgrading the genealogies, family histories and adding photos and appreciate any additions, corrections, photos etc you can contribute.  Keith (KTB)

[Mystic Manaia]

Hi Keith,  I am Lorna W, who recently gave you some more info. on the Carruthers.  Still no further finding anything about William Thomas Cuthbert though.  If you find anything more about him, I would appreciate hearing of it.

Lorna

[KTB]

Ah, I wondered if it was you.
I suspect that William Thomas CUTHBERT's mother (?Mary) was a solo mum who named her children after the father (as solo mums do now in NZ) but didn't record his given name for whatever reason (he could have been married, she may have been a prostitute or a mistress in those pre-reliable contraceptive times etc  ).  Clearly Mary was destitute to end up in a workhouse with children and in pre-social welfare times may well have either been trying to supplement her income or hoping the mysterious Mr Cuthbert would make an honest woman of her.  All very sad really. 
Pure genealogical research doesn't make moralistic decisions on the value of uncovering the truth  but this looks like it will be a dead end despite accessing any further records (although court records for imposing maintenance have uncovered missing links in other lines).  William himself probably had no interest in finding who his (irresponsible) father was  .
Cheers,
Keith

[Mystic Manaia]

Hi Keith,  I think I will try and get hold of a transcript of that baptism entry for William Cuthbert in the Cosford workhouse in 1837 and see if it could be him, as as far as I am aware, no one has done this.  If we could find brother James Cuthbert, this could give us some clues too.  I really feel this is the older brother he lived with as he named a son James and it doesn't appear to have come from Jean Hoare's family. 

Lurline (nee Carruthers) has just wondering if you would be interested in getting a Cuthbert reunion together in March 2015 to commemorate 150 years since the Cuthberts arrived in NZ.  She went to a 100 year one in 1965. Sher said it was held on George and Mavis Morley's farm at Pukeoware.  I would be interested in going to a reunion, if it could be organised.  Not sure how we could go about informing everyone though.
Lorna

[KTB]

Sounds good, plenty of time to plan it.

18th March  2015 is a Wednesday so Sat 21st would be most sensible. Venue could be a farm or a hall (probably better for photo displays, catering, bad weather, family photos etc).   

My mum (Muriel Blayney nee Potter, daughter of Arlie Potter nee Carruthers, in turn daughter of Alice Jane CUTHBERT) knows many of the older Cuthberts and Carruthers and between her phone and address book, Facebook contacts, e-mails etc we could probably cover at least one person per "branch" who could then be responsible for passing on the invitations to members of their respective families.

If you and Lurline think about it, we could design a nice "pre-invite" document to send around for people to reply to giving an "expression of Interest" to see if it could be a goer and how big a venue and what sort of catering would be needed.

Keith

[GreenKiwi]

Hi I am a Granddaugther of Mavis Morley. The Pukeowhare Hall is right near Uncle Lance Morley big enough for your Reunion. I hope you keep posting if you get any futher on this family line. Thanks