Northamptonshire Regiment 1898

[Stebie9173]

I've been looking at Thomas and Sidney's likely "passage to India".


I believe their early movements would have been similar:

After enlistment they would have spent about three or four months at the Depot at Northampton in training. After that (the end of 1888 for Thomas, and at the end of 1890 for Sidney), they would have transferred to the 1st Battalion at Warley. On 28th November 1890, the 1st Battalion arrived at Aldershot.

Since both of them were in Aldershot for the 1891 Census, it leaves three possible paths to India for them.

1)  Stayed at Aldershot with 1st Bn. until the end of 1891. There seems to have been only one reinforcement ship per year (in November or December each year) travelling to and from the 2nd Battalion who were at that point in "the Straits Settlements" (i.e. Singapore). If they joined the 1891 reinforcement ship they would have transferred to the 2nd Battalion on 18th December 1891, and boarded HMS Himalaya on the 19th December 1891. HMS Himalaya, with 228 reinforcements for Singapore aboard primarily for the 2nd Northamptons, reached Singapore on 2nd February 1892, where they would have stayed for most of the rest of 1892.

On 14th November 1892, the 2nd Battalion finished its overseas posting and returned to England, also aboard HMS Himalaya. Those men who still had overseas time to serve would have transferred to the 1st Battalion on departure from Singapore. HMS Himalaya headed back to the UK via India and arrived at Bombay on 26th November 1892. The newly arrived draft of men from 2nd Battalion joined the 1st Battalion at Bangalore on 2nd December 1892.

Or......

2) One or both of them did not board HMS Himalaya on its draft delivering voyage to Singapore in late 1891, and instead stayed at Aldershot with 1st Battalion until the 1st Battalion was posted onto overseas duty in October 1892.  The 1st Battalion boarded HMS Malabar at Portsmouth on 5th October 1892, and sailed to India reaching Bombay on 1st November 1892. They moved inland to their new base at Bangalore arriving there on 19th November 1892. The Draft from 2nd Battalion joined them a couple of weeks later.

Or.....

3) One or both of them stayed in England after 1892, which would have meant a transfer to 2nd Battalion (physically joining them when they arrived back in the UK from Singapore), in which case it's anybody's guess!


I do wonder whether their father's "tradition" of service with the old 48th (i.e. the 1st battalion) meant that they may have stayed with the 1st battalion until the battalion went abroad as a whole, but that is just speculation.... Bearing in mind that Thomas Jnr. stayed with the 1st battalion from 1888 to 1891, he may have followed route (2).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Himalaya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Malabar_(1866)



Steve.

[stevetewk65]

Hi Steve,

Route 2 certainly seems the best fit for Sidney, but would Thomas be to young in 92? (17 I believe)

I am still trying to get my head round how Thomas met Alice in sussex to marry in 98 so we must presume I think that he was in Aldershot (not a million miles from Withyham) until maybe 94 to give him chance to meet her and be old enough to serve overseas. Once he left for India, I presume he didnt then return home again until after the Tirah campaign and in time for his wedding (June 98)

Steve

[Stebie9173]

Assuming the "Family Search" records have Thomas's date of birth correct as 14th March 1871, he would have been 21 in 1892.

Sidney would have reached age 19 earlier in 1892 (born 26 February 1873).


Fred (born 30 May 1874) would have been too young at that point, and would have been old enough in 1893, but bear in mind the possibility that he lied about his age to join up, as mentioned earlier.


Steve.

[stevetewk65]

ok so you beat me at maths too! Sorry Steve, you are correct, he would've been 21 - you know I looked at that a dozen times and still made it 17!

But...back to my non-military intrigue, is 21 too young to be wandering to Withyham?!

[Stebie9173]

Leave in the UK was fairly common. Leave whilst in India was blinking rare. I suspect he could well have gone a-wandering down Withyham way prior to posting overseas, but six years is a long time away...


Having said that we really don't know whether he went overseas in 1892 yet.


Steve.

[forester]

Steve,

Is there an occupation for Alice on the wedding certificate?

Phil

[Stebie9173]

I have estimated the brothers enlistment dates as follows:

T P H - August 1888

S J - May 1890

F W - January 1892


Standard service in the Army at that point was 7 years on Active Service and 5 years on Reserve. The seven years active service could be extended to eight by the Army if the soldier was serving overseas near the end of his time, and a soldier could request that he served all of the twelve years as active service with no reserve service. When nearing 12 years, he could again request an extension to 21 years.

Putting the brothers service against these terms of enlistment gives the following.

F W - Enlisted in 1892, killed in action in 1897, after approx. 6 years service, so he was within his first period of active service (7 or 8 years)

S J - Enlisted in 1890, and reached 1897 and the Tirah Campaign after 7.5 years service, so could have been within his first period of service of 7 or 8 years. However, his marriage document in 1899 shows him as a serving soldier and also he was a Quartermaster Sergeant according to the Yeoman of the Guard site, so it seems likely to me that he requested extension to 12 years (1890 to 1902). If he extended to 21 years that would take him to 1911. Reaching his 21 years this close to the outbreak of war may well have been what put him in the frame for promotion to Quartermaster in the Sherwood Foresters, so I would lean towards 21 years for Sidney.

T P H - Enlisted in 1888, and reached 1897 and the Tirah Campaign after 9 years service, so it is almost certain that T P H extended to 12 years, taking him up to 1900. A further 9 years would take him up to 1909, which seems more than co-incidentally near to his Commission as a Sub-Conductor in the AOC as shown in the 1911 Army List. Again, I would lean towards 21 years term for TPH as well. Whether, all the 21 years was served in the Northamptons, or whether he became as Warrant Officer in the AOC for a few years is difficult to say, but I would lean towards a posting to the AOC some time in the last few years of his 21 years service.


Some clarity could be gained on that last point from Edna's birth certificate from 1907.



Steve.

[Stebie9173]

There is a birth certificate for a presumed daughter of Sidney in Walsall in 1911:

Name: Sybil A Pearsall
Year of Registration: 1911
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Johnson
District: Walsall
County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 1330


Steve.

[stevetewk65]

Hi chaps,

Alice only shows as spinster with an address of New Buckhurst, Withyham and he father as 'gamekeeper'. My assumption is that either he was the gamekeeper at the Buckhurst estate or she was a servant there.

steve