Impossible Brickwall

[Anne W]

Hi All,
        Before I give up once and for all on the eternal mystery of my husband's 4x greatgrandfather, Robert Reginald Richmond Rose, I thought I'd lay out what I have to see if any clever person out there could perhaps spot something I have missed or maybe have some suggestions. I think it is impossible to solve, but here goes-

        25th December 1800-  Robert Reginald Richmond Rose married Ann Waters at St Helier Jersey. Robert gave his birth place as Bath, Somerset and he is the Purser on HMS Pelican. Ann Waters was born at St Helier.
         
         Robert and Ann's children were ELIZABETH b 1801 at Longueville, Manor Jersey MARY b 1802 also at Longueville, RICHMOND PATON b 1807 at St Helier JANE b c1811 GEORGE b c1815 and ANN b 1819 at Mt Orquiele Castle Jersey. Ann is my husbands 3x greatgrandmother. Ann married Thomas Griffith in 1840 and immigrated to Australia with him and their children in 1848.

         In the early 1900's Robert's Australian born grandson William C Griffith tried very hard to establish the identity of his grandfather. Letters have survived from this time, replies from the Admiralty to William C 's inquires about his grandfather's naval service. The Admiralty letters seem to confirm that Robert RR was in the Navy from 1799-1806 , but maddeningly only refer to him as "this officer" . When I tried to order the log books of the Pelican for 1800 form the NA UK's Digital ordering service, referencing Purser Robert or Richmond Rose (or any combination of the above), they told me they couldn't find him!
 
        The problem is his name. I've traced his career and he is Robert Reginald Richmond at his marriage; Richmond Rose when he is appointed Deputy Barracks Master in 1809: Richmond Rose aged 51 in General Don's Muster of Jersey in 1815 ( no profession beside his name) and Robert Richmond Rose in 1822 when he started a newspaper on Jersey called "Rose's Loyal Jersey Observer". I have a copy of the letter he wrote to Robert Peel, then Home Secretary, asking for his endorsement.

        William C Griffith became convinced that Robert RR Rose was the illigitimate son of the Duke of Richmond and that there was money in Chancery in London owed to his descendants. No explanation has survived as to how he came to this conclusion and the only proof is an old newspaper ad from Lloyds of London asking Australian Griffith's to get in contact with them to "their advantage". This is the family legend that seems destined to go on for another generation, as I can't solve the mystery of who exactly Robert RR Rose was !

 I'm ready to light a bonfire with all my notes. It's impossible !

Anne

[aniph]

Hi Anne

This is a bit interesting as he has exactly the same name

Banns of Marriage 1799
St Nicholas Plumstead, Middlesex

Robert Reginald Richmond Rose to Maria Todd?

Is it the same man?

Annie

[Finder]

Don't light a fire yet, everyone here loves a good mystery 

James

[Eyesee]

The Navy List of 1814 on Google Books Search has him as Robert Richmond ROSE, with date of his first warrant as a Purser on 18 April 1799.

Ian C

[Anne W]

  Thanks all for your replies. Goodness Annie the Banns of marriage to Maria Todd is a bombshell!! It's the first I've seen of him linked to someone other than Ann Waters. I bet it is him and would explain a lot. I've always thought that there was something fishy about our Robert RR and it wouldn't suprise me if his marriage to Ann in Dec 1800 was bigimy.
   In 1838 Ann applies for a copy of her marriage certificate. Why? In the 1841 census she is living on " Independant "means in St Helier. Could it be that Robert RR had died sometime in 1838 and Ann needed to prove her marriage to his sceptical family? Did they pay her off? Or is all this pointless speculation?
   It would be interesting to know the month of the Banns of marriage to Maria Todd. Was it before or after he joined the Navy?
   Please forgive my total lack of knowledge of English geography. Middlesex is London right? I've never looked in London for Robert RR. The search so far has been in Jersey, Somerset and Jamaica, were HMS Pelican was stationed in 1799.
   I'll put off lighting the bonfire and investigate further. Thank you all so much!
bye
Anne

[aniph]

Banns to Maria Todd 8 Sept 1799.

Cheers
Annie

[aniph]

These may or may not relate to your Robert.

2 marriages for John George ROSE (he was shown as a widower both times)

father listed both times as Robert Richmond Rose

17 Aug 1847 to Maria MARCHANT at Holy Trinity, Newington

15 Oct 1872 to Margaret BOWMAN at St James the Great, Bethnal Green

I can't find the original marriage or birth for John George

Cheers
Annie

[Anne W]

  You've come up trumps again Annie!! I hadn't come across a second (or maybe third) marriage for George Rose. He is a bit of a problem as well. We know our Ann Griffith nee Rose had a brother called George as a letter from him has survived in the family. In it he tries to cheer Ann up. Apparently she was finding Maitland in NSW tough going! He calls himself George. I can trace him and his wife Maria through the census's till 1861 were they are all living at the Woolwich Naval yards. George is a retired Naval engineer and he and Maria have a son George William who was born in Jersey.
  After that they disappear. BUT there is a John George Rose , widower, retired Naval Engineer born in Jersey living in Canningtown in the 1871 cesus. Living with him is his son William George born in Jersey. I think this HAS to be them, but why they changed the order of their christian names is anyones guess!
  Thank you again for your help. I feel I've found out more in one afternoon than I have for ages !
Bye
Anne 

[aniph]

Glad to help, Anne:)

cheers
Annie