German Church in Liverpool - PRÖNNEBECK

[Pat Hase]

I've received a marriage certificate for 4th Dec 1882 of a John SIMPSON and an Elisabeth PRÖNNEBECK which took place in the German Church in Liverpool.  It is a GRO copy written in one hand.  Does anyone have access to the original registers for this church so that I could see how the bride's surname was spelt when she signed her name?
The address of the groom is a lodging house in 1881 (he was a mariner) and that of the bride is unoccupied in 1881 so I can't get any clues that way.  On later censuses she states she was born in Germany but a Bristish Citizen.
Thanks

Pat

[CaroleW]

Does the entry show that she signed her name or made her mark (X)

You say the writing is all in the same hand which suggests the GRO have written it out from the original

They only do that if the original is poor quality.  Their usual practice is to print a copy from the original entry (basically a photocopy)

Can I suggest you contact the GRO and confirm which is the case here?  If it is an exact copy (photocopy) of the original then there is nothing to be gained by viewing it at the records office

[garstonite]

Hiya Pat...this is for future reference when you get some more info...I have checked and Elisabeth is not there...
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/merseysidealiens/aliensname.htm#PALLIS
good luck..
TWO spellings on freebmd

Pronnebeck ElisEbeth

Pronnebseck ElisAbeth

same marriage......allan

[CaroleW]

www.lancashirebmd.org has transcribed the marriage and surname is Pronnebeck

[jannergray]

Have you tried contacting the National Archives regarding their Naturalization Certificates???

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/citizenship-and-naturalisation.htm

[Pat Hase]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions - they are all useful.
The certificate I have is a photocopy of the copy sent to the GRO and therefore not the original church record.  I have contacted the Registrar in Liverpool to find out whether they hold the original or would the church records be deposited in the Liverpool Record Office?  The Church was in Renshaw Street.
The Liverpool History Project about aliens in Liverpool looks very interesting - perhaps later I can follow that up.
She appears to have signed her name.  As she does say on one census that she is a Naturalised British Citizen the suggestion about the National Archives is very useful but I suppose will have to wait until I can visit. 
I've also contacted the Anglo German FHS.
It always seems with family history that as soon as you solve one problem 3 more come to take its place!  But you learn a lot!
Best wishes & thanks.
Pat

[CaroleW]

The certificate I have is a photocopy of the copy sent to the GRO and therefore not the original church record

I think you will find it is the original record you are looking at and not somebody's transcription of it - the GRO only holds copies of originals

[jannergray]

Pat

You need to see if the church, or Liverpool Record Office hold the original register.

The GRO in Southport only holds transcribed copies of the original marriage registers - these transcribed copies were made at the time, (or soon after) the ceremony by the incumbent/priest/registrar and do not hold the original signatures, etc of the bride, groom or witnesses. These were all transcribed to make the copy. This is why the handwriting on the certificate is the same throughout.

Therefore two copies of the marriage registers survive. The original copy being the one the bride/groom signed will usually be held either at the church or the Record Office - the transcribed copy will be at the GRO.

Graham

[Pat Hase]

I have just had a break through and found an announcement of this marriage in the Liverpool Mercury and the Surname is
given as RÖNNEBECK and her father is said to come from Tetenbull in Germany.   RÖNNEBECK does seem to be a more common surname so I have something to work on.
Many many thanks for all your help.
Pat