Alice Selina Goddard - Confusion

[Valda]

Hi

Louisa gives married on the census for propriety's sake

1861 census RG9 31 folio 123
1 Adelaide Terrace
Louisa Godard 28 Married Dressmaker Chelsea Middlesex
Susan Maidment 20 Unmarried Lodger Needlewoman Chelsea Middlesex
Jane Maidment 23 Unmarried Lodger Dressmaker Chelsea Middlesex
Alice Godard 3 Daughter Chelsea Middlesex

1851 census HO107 15?? folio 311
4 North Avenue St James Clerkenwell
Louisa Maidment 21 Daughter Vauxhall Surrey
George Maidment 17 Son Glover Chelsea Middlesex
Sarah Maidment 13 Daughter Chelsea Middlesex
Susan Maidment 10 Daughter Chelsea Middlesex
Frederick Maidment 5 Son Chelsea Middlesex

1841 census HO107 688/2 folio 11
53 Camera Square St Luke Chelsea
George Maidment 35 Glover J(ourneyman) not born Middlesex
54 Camera Square
William Maidment 30 Glover J not born Middlesex
Elizabeth Maidment 35 not born Middlesex
George Maidment 7 born Middlesex
Louisa Maidment 12 born Middlesex
Jane Maidment 5 born Middlesex
Sarah Maidment 3 born Middlesex
Susan Maidment 1 born Middlesex

11th November 1866 St Luke Chelsea
Eldred Davy 27 Bachelor Engineer 2A John Street Robert Davy (Deceased) Watchmaker
Louisa Maidment 28 Spinster 30 Markham Street William Maidment Glover Cutter
By Banns. Both signed
Witnesses ? Bennett and Mary H Cromont?

1871 census Eldred and Louisa were in Hackney with two sons but no Alice. Louisa aged 36 and born London. 1881 in Shoreditch with two sons (one aged - aged 45 born Somerset. 1891 census in Tottenham (aged 50 born Essex). 1901 census Eldred was a widower.

Possible death registration
Deaths Mar 1893   Davy  Louisa  58  Edmonton  3a 195


Regards

Valda

[timbo777]

Hi

So Thomas Marsh Goddard was a bounder and a cad. Left Louisa and rushed off with Sarah Ellis Edwards.
Then went off to Australia where his eventful life ended in 1889.

Valda and Tati, many thanks for your digging, you have helped considerably. And also many thanks for the info on Louisa, gosh it's raining info now. I have found that George and William are or were both Glovers and came from Yeovil.

All very interesting as I am in Somerset but am an Aussie! Connections all round.

Cheers Tim

PS If I can't find your references I may come back for a bit of guidance...

[timbo777]

I have identified William Maidment's first wife as Elizabeth Frampton. I think her brother was living next door (John Frampton) in the 1841 census. The Frampton Family comes from Dorset/Someset, and William Maidment comes from Yeovil.

William Maidment's second wife is called Selina, which fits as William's granddaughter is Alice Selina Goddard

I cannot find any siblings of Thomas Goddard other than Thomas Marsh Goddard. Nor Bumsteds for that matter, but I will keep searching. Not sure whether they are London based or moved in from elsewhere

One of the witnesses at Thomas Goddards wedding was Josiah Marsh, maybe his first wife was a Marsh...

[Valda]

Hi

Prerogative Court of Canterbury will

Will of Josiah Marsh, Stock Broker of Islington , Middlesex
Date 26 May 1831
Catalogue reference PROB 11/1785 


Regards

Valda

[timbo777]

Thanks Valda

I have now found a small typwewriiten history of the family from my father(now deceased) which states that Capt George Goddard was lost at sea in a gale off Tristan da Cunha, which sounds very interesting. So maybe Thomas Marsh Goddard had a brother George. The typewritten note states that after the loss of George, Alice Selina had to go into Service, which was in South Shields and it was through the church that she met her husband Joseph Ingtram Forster. Gets more and more interesting

Regards Tim

[Valda]

Hi

Not sure why the loss of Captain George Goddard, if he existed, would cause the illegitimate daughter of Thomas March/Marsh Goddard, a butcher, who seems to have left for Australia shortly after his marriage (since he doesn't appear on the 1861 census) effect Alice Selina the illegitimate daughter, who may have for proprietory's sake made up some of her background to cover her illegitimate beginnings in London. On her marriage she states her father was called George and was a mariner. It is very convenient to have long lost mariner fathers if you don't want your origins checked. More significant might be Alice's mother's marriage in 1866. There is no evidence Alice was absorbed into her mother's new family or if she was stayed there very long before she was expected to leave and start work as a servant. However if you were living in London you might expect, with plenty of work for servant girls, you would work there not remove all the way to the north east. If however you were placed into the poor law system you could be placed almost anywhere and it may be before her mother remarried Alice went into the workhouse with or without her mother.
As yet there doesn't seem evidence that the Goddard family were paying maintence for the child or even acknowledged her.

What does the tree say about Alice's mother?


Searching Queensland's online BMDs gives this information

Reg #           Given Names Surname   Father's Name      Mother's Name
1889/22260 Thomas March Goddard Thomas Goddard Mary Ann Bunstead

The certificate itself might also state how long Thomas had been in Australia and his children and confirms the marriage of his parents to be the correct marriage.


Regards

Valda

[timbo777]

Hi Valda
I think your right, George Goddard does not seem to exist at all. I know nothing about the Poor Law System, so I will look into that, this research gets more and more interesting. Do Poor Law Records exist?

It certainly seems right that she formed no part of her mothers new life. Louisa Maidment/Davy seems to get more and more confused regarding her age and where she was born, disturbingly so.

"What does the tree say about Alice's mother?" - What does this statement mean, feel free to send me a message if the meaning is cryptic ;-)

Cheers Tim

[redpointer]

Sarah Ellis Edwards is in my tree and married Thomas Marsh Goddard in 1858.  Sarah previously had a child in 1856 named Louisa (Chapman) Edwards.  During the 1851 Thomas is listed as 'In the Navy' and on his mc in 1858 he's shown as a Butcher.  I believe Thomas was an only child and his father was a Lawyer.

Thomas neither Sarah are on the 1861 census but Sarah is on the 1871 working for her future husband Narborough Balls whom she married in 1893 (Narborough is also missing from the '61).  Presumably Sarah and Narborough married a few years after Thomas Marsh Goddard died.  Is there proof of Thomas Marsh Goddard's death in Australia and specific dates ? 

I also found a marriage of a Thomas Goddard Ball, b. 1858, and the certs show his father as Narborough Ball.   This could possibly the son of Thomas Marsh Goddard. 

Its a fascinating story that's now coming together.
Julie

[Valda]

Hi

Welcome to Rootschat

You can search the Queensland BMDs here and obtain a copy of the death certificate

http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/justice-services/births-deaths-and-marriages


Reg                 Given Names Surname Father's Name     Mother's Name
1889/B22260 Thomas March Goddard Thomas Goddard Mary Ann Bunstead


There seems no evidence of a Bunstead/Goddard marriage


I can't see a Thomas Goddard born circa 1826 Islington/London as a seaman on the 1851 census.
Areas of the 1861 census are missing from the London area including around Westminster


The details of the marriage of Thomas Goddard Ball

1st August 1882 St James, Paddington
Thomas Goddard Ball 24 Bachelor Saddler 107 Circesnter Street  Narborough Ball Oilman
Eliza Gridley 22 Spinster 65 Westbourne Grove George Gridley Carpenter
Both signed
Witnesses Lewis Fielder and Sarah Giles


On the 1891 census Thomas Goddard Ball gives his birthplace as Chelsea and on the 1901 census Fulham. On the 1881 census it is just London.

Births Jun 1858  Goddard  Thomas     Chelsea  1a 163


The birth certificate will confirm who Thomas' father was.


Regards

Valda