Looking for Isabella

[aghadowey]

It was 1930 not 1920 census where Isabella was listed as widow.
According to what's already been found (and yes, care is needed as Greene is such a common surname and there could be lots of Harry Greenes in N.Y.C. at the same time)-
1902 Isabella G. Wallace m. Harry Greene
1910 Harry & Isabella living at 4706 New Utrecht Avenue, Brooklyn
1920 Harry & Isabella living at 708 Lafayette Avenue, Brooklyn
1930 Isabella (wid.) living at 37 Goodwin Avenue, Brooklyn
1937 Isabella Greene living at 35 Goodwin Place, Brooklyn made her will
1937/1946 Isabella Greene died

All in King's Co. (Brooklyn) so this may not be the correct Harry-
"Harry J Greene, died 18th May 1922 age 47years in Queens, NY"

[YvonneR]

Hi Everyone

The Harold Greene who was buried at The Evergreens Cemetery appears to be too young!

The IGG death index shows:

Harold Greene age 36, died 8 February 1936 in Kings County (born 1899-1900)


Also on the IGG death index

Isabelle Greene age 71, Died 30 January 1941 in Manhattan (born 1869-1870)


The above index entry for an Isabelle obviously shows as died in Manhattan (maybe in hospital?)

Rapunzel

It might be worth sending for all the certificates...

Shellyesq has put a link to the PDF file for ordering photocopies from the LDS (can't recall what thread though...so here it is again  http://www.familysearch.org/ENG/Search/RG/images/FReqMicrofilm.pdf )

I do use this facility a great deal especially as it costs only $2 per item (maximum 8 costing $16) and as my family names are so common, I am able to order when I am not absolutely sure. My bank provides an international draft in dollars for £5.00 not sure what other banks charge! You will need to enter the microfilm number and the certificate number (I always cross the last heading out and write in "Certificate number"). I have always received these in 2-3 weeks here in England.


To find the microfilm number:

Go to "The library Catalog" at Familysearch http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp

Click "Place Search" enter "New York" and then click either "New York, New York (City), New York, Kings, New York City or New York, Queens, New York City" depending on where the death occurred. Click "View Place Details" then scroll down to "Vital Records" (not the indexes)

You will see a list of records held, click on the one you need and click on "View Film Notes"

Scroll through until you see Cert.No. and date and you will have the FHL Film number...


I did the above for Harry J Greene's death which is on film number 2028035

Hope this helps

Best wishes

Yvonne


Here I have filled one in....I generally print it and write the details

[Rapunzel]

Sorry I've taken so long to answer you all but I have been doing some re-checking. 
Here's everything again including your bits with ?s where things are still not clear.
1867 - Isabella Wallace was born in Whithorn, Scotland on 30.05. to Agnes Wallace (she is registered as illegitimate but a paternity case was heard and won but she did not use her father's name of Rodgers).
1871 - On the census she is 3 years old and living with her grandmother Jessie Wallace in Whithorn (in 1871 her mother married and was with her new husband).
1881 - On the census she is noted as a 13 year old stepdaughter (scholar) of Stephen Rice and his wife.
1891 and after - no trace in Scotland.
1902 - on 7.12. marriage between Isabella G. Wallace and Harry J. Greene in Kings County - she should be c. 35, he c. 28, so dates recorded are incorrect.

The 'G' in her name is not on her birth certificate but she uses it from here on.

What I'd like to know if possible about this marriage is were they both single? What were their occupations at that time? Is this information recorded anywhere?

1910 - Census - living in rented accommodation: 4706 New Utrecht Ave., Brooklyn, Ward 30, Kings County, no children recorded.
Head of household: Harry J. Greene, occupation Bookkeeper Wholesale Glass.
Born in NY, parents born in NY.
Wife: Isabella G. Greene, born Scotland, parents born Scotland, immigration year 1896.
Their ages are given as 31 and 38, this is incorrect: he is c.36 and she c. 43. As everything else tallies the ages must have been manipulated somehow.

Mother of Harry, Mary Anne Greene, 71, widow, she and parents born in NY.

Does anyone know what the census comment 'M1 for 9 years' means?

1920 - living in their own property, 708 Lafayette Ave., Brooklyn, Kings County. Did they rent out - were others living there too?

Iabella's immigration year was unknown - strange - does this mean someone else filled in the form, do you think?

1918 -  This is also the address given on the WW1 draft index card and gives Isabella as next of kin. It also gives us the dob of Harry - 04.12.1874. This makes him 44 in 1918 - is this not rather old to be called up for war service? I suppose it was something like the Home Guard rather than active fighting?
His occupation on the WW1 draft was given as a paint something salesman in NYCity - a rather posh address too. But in 1920 he was noted as   salesman Merchandis. so again a bit unclear.
Harry's mother seems to have died in the meantime - or moved out.

1922 - Harry J. Greene died in Queens - although they lived in Brooklyn this is possible - a hospital? He certainly seems like the right one and the ages match.
1930 - Isabella is a widow and living at 37 (sorry 35 was her friend) Goodwin Place aged 60 (really 63). Occupation given as Carrier China Busin...? 
Immigration year 1889 - this does not tally with the year given in 1910!

Did she rent out rooms - are others recorded at that address?

1941 - Isabella G. Greene died in Manhatten - again, like Harry it could have been a hospital or someone else's house for that matter.

the Harry who died in 1936 can't be my one - unless a son, which I doubt. The only child I found that MIGHT be theirs was a Harold who died aged 1 in 1907 in Kings. As they didn't marry all that young it looks as though they had no children. Only her step brothers and sisters are mentioned in her will.
The cemetery address you gave me John is the one I emailed several times but my plot number is 2877.

By the way, the house is still there and looks not too bad - probably worth a fortune nowadays!

Many, many thanks to all of you: adhadowey, Yvonne, shellyesq, John. I really appreciate all the time and effort you've given to my post, also for all the useful suggestions etc. which I will follow up. You have managed to clear away some of the unknown and set some of the records on Isabella straight -  band leader indeed!! Will let you know if I get any further with this.

Rapunzel

[aghadowey]

1942 draft registration was a merely a registration of men born between certain dates and is not an indication of military service.

New York marriage certificate would show marital status, occupations, addresses, etc.

"Does anyone know what the census comment 'M1 for 9 years' means?" means 1st marriage, married 9 years.

[johnnyboy]

Hi all: I wouldn't be too quick to reject the bandleader theory. From the Kings County (Brooklyn) page of the USGenweb page for New York State (accessed at http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com), some food for thought:

Lain's 1897 directory of Brooklyn has

GREEN Harry A. musician h 1295 B'wick av (h = house, and the abbreviation stands for Bushwick Avenue)
This address is about 13 city blocks from Goodwin Place. The middle initial is wrong.

and

GREENE Harry  musician  h 293 Sackett
This address is in the Brooklyn neighborhood that is now called Carroll Gardens (south of the Brooklyn Bridge and directly across the East River from Manhattan).

Also GREENE Wm.  carp'r  h 293 Sackett (carpenter)

[johnnyboy]

Hi Rapunzel: Good news and bad news about Isabella and Harry Greene. I spent an hour or so this morning at the Evergreen Cemetery. Found out from the office that Isabella and Harry J. Greene are buried together in Plot No. 2877 in the Pisgah section of the cemetery.

Isabella's interment date is Feb. 3, 1941, confirming the Jan. 30, 1941 date of death in Manhattan posted above. Harry's interment date is May 26, 1922, confirming the May 22, 1922 date of death posted above.

Isabella and Harry's burial are not listed in the cemetery's online database simply because it is an incomplete database. The cemetery had no further information to give me.

The cemetery is so large that a cemetery worker had to help me find the grave. Unfortunately, there is no grave stone. I took pictures of the grave, with the cemetery worker standing where the gravestone would have been. I'm attaching a picture with  this post. If it works, I'll post two additional pictures to give some perspective where the grave is.

The cemetery office told me that there was no records of perpetual care being paid for. I think that the absence of a gravestone and the lack of perpetual care leads me to think that the lawyers handling the will fell down on the job when it came to performing their fiduciary duty to Isabella's estate.  At least I hope this answers some questions.

To get more information, you'd have to order death certificates for Isabella and Harry from the City of New York.

Regards,
John 

[johnnyboy]

This picture shows is a longer shot of nearby graves. Isabella’s and Harry’s grave is the open space to the right of the brown gravestone that is just behind that taller black stone in the middle of the picture. The grave is a single grave, with the coffins buried one atop the other.

[johnnyboy]

In the far background, you can make out the skyline of Manhattan. The Empire State Building is through the leafless bushy tree on the far left.

[johnnyboy]

Final image: You'll find the Pisgah section on the attached map of the cemetery directly below the "M" in Cemetery. Isabella and Harry are buried just on the dotted line that marks the border betweeen the Pisgah and the Mt. Hebron.
section.

If the attached map is not clear enough, you can download the map from the cemetery website, http://www.theevergreenscemetery.com.

John