Roman Catholic?

[ggrocott]

I have been looking for the baptism of Dorothy Lewis in order to find out who her parents were.  According to the 1851 census she was born in 1769 in Tidenham, Gloucs.

She married Arnold Thomas in Chepstow on 6 Jan 1799 and died in 1859 also in Chepstow.  I have found transcripts of the marriage and burial on http://www.forest-of-dean.net.  I think the marriage took place in the Chepstow Parish Church, presumably Church of England.  However, the burial record at Chepstow Municipal Cemetery shows that the officiating minister was Roman Catholic.

Does this indicate that Dorothy was Roman Catholic and if so where should I be looking for a baptism?

Her husband died in 1853 but I have been unable to find a record of his burial.


Any help would be much appreciatd.

[Luzzu]

Hi,

I have a similar situation in my family and I think this was quite a common occurrence.

My gt grandmother had both a CofE and a RC marriage - although I think the RC one was more of a blessing as some of her children died in infancy and the Priest told her it was her fault because she didn't get married in the right church.  Her father who I know was definitely RC was baptised RC,  married after Banns in the Established Church but was buried as a Catholic.  His older brother and their parents were married according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Catholic Church.

I understand that many Catholic couples married as CofE in the 19th century as I think they believed the marriage would not be valid unless they were married in the Established Church because of Hardwickes 1754 Marriage Act.  They then proceeded to bring the children of the marriage up as Catholics as would be shown in baptism and burial records.

There is an interesting article on Roman Catholic marriages in Manchester in the 19th century on this link:-

http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_12.htm

It basically says that prior to 1908 getting married outside the Catholic Church did not go against the  teachings church. You have to scroll down quite a lot because it is at the bottom of the page.

Hope this helps and in your case I think it does indicate that Dorothy was Roman Catholic.

Luzzu

[Ebch]

Just read that piece on the Manchester Family History site re RC Marriage and the Ne Temere decree in 1908.  I think the writer had a poor understanding of the decree.  It does say that the marriages of people not baptised into the RC Faith are valid but really it is reinforcing its previous teaching.  Perhaps someone on here could explain it better.
By the way there is St Mary's RC Parish Church in Chepstow so maybe the wedding took place there. I do not believe a RC priest would ever have been allowed to perform a marriage in a non RC Church.  There again, anyone more qualified than me to answer?

[Luzzu]

Hi,

It is certainly a complicated subject and although I am very interested, beyond the basics I am out of my depth so I too really hope that someone more qualified will step in and answer as it affects my family too.

I do know that my family situation and the one you describe doesn't seem unusual in the 19th century.

I seem to remember from somewhere that when you see a marriage as "Registrar Attended" this would indicate that it took place in a RC Church.

I too don't believe that a RC Priest would conduct a marriage in a non RC Church so if the marriages took place in a CofE church they would not have been RC marriages.

Luzzu

[jds1949]

It was common in the eighteenth and nineteenth century for Catholic couples to have two services, a Catholic marriage to satisfy their religious beliefs and a service in an Anglican church to satisfy the civil authorities. As time progressed the practice became less and less common. Initially Catholic marriage was not regarded by the state as legal, [unless it took place in Ireland or abroad] so in order to ensure that children could legally inherit etc. it was necessary to have the state sanctioned marriage which was only available initially through the Anglican church. [Although having said that, quite a number of Catholic couples seem not to have bothered with the non-Catholic ceremony]

Once it became possible to have the civil registration alongside the Catholic ceremony [registrar attended] then the need for the Anglican ceremony diminished. However there was the added complication of "mixed" marriages - Catholics marrying Anglicans - which also often resulted in two ceremonies.

All of the above is a simplification of what happened, there were all sorts of complicating factors, family and local custom, fashion, the attitude of individual priests and the advice they gave their congregations, to name just some.

jds1949

[Luzzu]

Thank you jds1949.

You explain it very well  .

Luzzu

[Steve G]

some of her children died in infancy and the Priest told her it was her fault because she didn't get married in the right church. 

 He What ....?!

[Luzzu]

Its true - my gran (her daughter told me) -  3 of her sons died aged 4 months, 6 years and 7 years.

 

[ggrocott]

Thank you all for the information.  This is the first time there has been any trace of Roman Catholicism in the family so I am rather out of my depth on this one - will obviously have to investigate further - can anyone tell me where I should start looking for records?