Richard Fowler Born out of County

[carol18]

My 3xGreatgrand father Richard Fowler born abt 1776 was on the 1841 census
in Birmingham.uk but said he was born out of county,so was not born in Birmingham.As he died in 1845 so would not be on the 1851 Census.
So i don`t know where he was born.He was married to Ann.
Any ideas how i can find out,i would be grateful for the help.
Thankyou
Carol18

[Ermintrude46]

Have you found his marriage to Ann in the parish records?  If you are lucky, it might give his parish of residence at the time of the marriage if he was not local (tho' of course this may not be his parish at birth).  But as you only had to be resident in the parish for a few weeks to counts as "of this parish" it's just as likely that you won't.  I have several fellows like this, just appear, marry a local girl and die without leaving any hints of where they came from.
Ermy

[carol18]

Hello Ermy,
I have not been able to find a marriage for Richard and Ann in Parish Records
I have a marriage for one of his sons John born in 1830,it says Richard was
a shoemaker,That is all i know.
Thankyou
Carol18

[Valda]

Hi

The 1841 census yes or no question about birth is born in or out of county. Richard says no so if that is correct he wasn't born in Warwickshire. Richard's age on the 1841 census was given as 65. Adult ages on the 1841 census, those over 15 were usually given to the nearest 5 below the actual age, so again if Richard is accurate with his age it could be anywhere between 65-69. His burial record or death certificate would give a more accurate age. Richard gives his occupation as shoemaker. Ann aged '55' gives her birthplace as Ireland or since it is only a capital letter that denotes birthplace it could be an S for Scotland.

There is this Ann Fowler on the 1851 census who might be the same woman

1851 census HO107 2055 folio 230
31 Howard Place Birmingham
Michael Casey 37 Head Married Bricklayers labourer Ireland
Martha Casey 31 Wife Married Birmingham Warwickshire
Sarah Casey 8 Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire
James Casey 6 Son Birmingham Warwickshire
Martha Casey 4 Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire
Henry Casey 3 Son Birmingham Warwickshire
Emma Casey 6 Months Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire
Ann Fowler 67 Mother Widow Receiving parish relief Ireland

MICHAEL CASEY 
MARTHA BUCKLEY 
Marriage:  11 APR 1842   Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick

Just a stab at this but shoemaking was a quite common occupation for ex soldiers particularly those that had been wounded and wives who were born in Ireland might indicate that was where they met, in which case again that might be because Richard Fowler was a soldier at one time. His death certificate may or may not give further information. Of course many people arrived from Ireland and lived in Birmingham and many shoemakers had absolutely no connection with soldiering so it is only an option to consider.

Are these also children of Richard and Ann? What occupation in the baptism register is given for their father?


RICHD FOWLER 
Birth:  10 FEB 1820   
Christening:  26 MAY 1821   Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick
Father:  RICHD FOWLER 
Mother:  ANN 

THOS FOWLER 
Birth:  05 FEB 1821   
Christening:  26 MAY 1821   Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick
Father:  RICHD FOWLER 
Mother:  ANN 

ANN FOWLER
Birth:  31 MAY 1822   
Christening:  JUN 1822   Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick
Father:  RICHARD FOWLER   
Mother:  ANN     


Regards

Valda

[Sandymc47]

Hi Carol
A really hard one to find
I am a Fowler as you can see but mine come from Yorkshire. Unfortunately because its the 1700's its very skimpy on information unless you know where they were born. I looked through the marriages of a Richard Fowler to a Ann in the 10 years he might have married between 1791 - 1801 and there is only one Ann who was Ann Waring they married on 27/05/1793 and it states he was born 1768 in Leyland, Walton le Dale, in Lancs. I also looked at deaths in 1845 and there is a Richard died in 1846 whose wife was Ann in Yorkshire.
So its just flimsy information I know as to whether this is your Richard.
As you might know the ages are very iffy in that time as some peeps made their own ages up as they either didnt know or didnt want to seem old lol.
You might look for Yorkshire Strays who are on the 1841 or say Lancashire strays to see if you can find him in Birmingham.
Hope you can find him
regards Sandymc   
p.s. just ;posted and someone has given more info soz

[carol18]

Hi Valda,
I have Richard Fowlers Death certificate for 1845 which states he was aged 69 and a Shoe maker,his daughter Martha was the informant.
Yes that is Ann on the 1851 Census.
I don`t know if them are Richards Children but i will certainly look them up
at the Central Library In Birmingham.
Thankyou very much.
Carol18

[carol18]

Hi Sandy,
Thankyou for the  message,i have Richards death certificate,he died in
Birmingham in 1845 age 69.
So whether he came form Yorkshire i don`t know,i don`t think i will ever
find out.
Its funny there does not seem to be any children with Richard and Ann
in 1841.Mind you they were getting on a bit.
Thankyou once again.
Carol

[Valda]

Hi

If that is Ann on the 1851 census then she either married as a widow - Ann Casey or her son Michael was born illegitimately. Either way she was certainly in Ireland circa 1814 and the marriage to Richard Fowler is likely to be with an Ann Casey. If the early 1820s baptisms in Birmingham are to the same couple then they had arrived in Birmingham by that date.

Most men who served in the army did not serve long enough to recieve a pension so their records are much harder to track. These are the Richard Fowlers who did receive a pension and might fit your age profile though the last one would have been discharged to early to have met Ann in Ireland and only the second one would have been discharged sufficiently early to be in Birmingham by the 1820s if he was not serving there.

WO 97/655/112 RICHARD FOWLER Born KINGSWOOD, Gloucestershire Served in 52nd Foot Regiment Discharged aged 46 1799-1821

WO 97/1144/325 RICHARD FOWLER Born PETHERTON, Somerset Served in 8th Foot Regiment; Cambrian Rangers; 3rd Garrison Battalion Discharged aged 37 1797-1816

WO 121/222/896  RICHARD FOWLER. Born [Not Known]. Served in 3rd Garrison Battalion. Discharged aged [Not Known]. Original certificate of discharge missing. See film image . 1832

WO 121/101/71 RICHARD FOWLER Born CROOME, Worcestershire Served in Essex Fencibles; 66th Foot Regiment Discharged aged 33 after 15 years of service Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge. 1794-1809

If John Fowler was born circa 1830 you might have expected him to be with his parents on the 1841 census or with relatives. When do you first find him on censuses?
Did he marry in an Anglican or Catholic church?


Regards

Valda

[carol18]

Hi Valda,
Ann Fowler should have read Mother-in-law,Ann was the mother of Martha Casey nee Fowler.But Martha was also a widow she was Martha Buckley
before she married Micheal Casey.
I wondered why there was no children on the 1841 Census i first found
John on the 1851 Census with Harriet Fowler born abt 1837 whether it was his sister i don`t know.
John Fowler married Ann Preston in 1852 at St.Phillips church in Birmingham.
Thankyou for taking an interest i really appreciate it.
Thankyou
Carol18