Richard Fowler Born out of County

[dobfarm]

Hi Carol

Why not try Tephra's Scavenger Hunt by appointment

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,358572.0.html

Now't too loose

Theres a gang of poster helpers that specialise in 'crash  brickwalls down' &  they may find Richards county of birth by censuses lookup of family relo's

[carol18]

Hi Dave,
Thankyou very much for telling me about the scavenger Hunt,i am really
grateful.
I have sent Tephra a PM to add my name.
Best Wishes
Carol

[dobfarm]

Hi Again

Just to give an idea how it works!
One looks at all possible marriages known! near also afar as well as known. IGI of Richard's and Ann's then try and put families to each one for elimination from the hunt! but if a few people from different parts of the country cover their area. Then the other way is finding a Richard & Ann Married in censuses where no marriage can be found!** then look at siblings of that couple that have same names as your Richard. Ie say your Richard & Ann had a Gertrude bapt 1840 in Warwickshire and another Richard and Ann in Kent had a Gertrude bapt 1845 also the marriage can't be found for this couple as well as yours. This other couple are eliminated and  assuming there a no infant deaths

Thus can look for known and unknown marriages to eliminate (Linking to find Ann maiden name)

Then find their Bapts (Richard and Ann ?)

And so on! slowly whittling down the other Richard Ann marriages

Best of luck
Good hunting

Dobby

Heir hunter companies use this method.

[Valda]

Hi

I would also suggest putting a new topic on the Warwickshire board as this topic is about Richard Fowler the shoemaker. You may find there are others there who are interested in your Fowler family and who have knowledge and access to Warwickshire records. Scavenger hunts by necessity are Rootschatters scouring internet sources (which tend to be poorer for periods pre C19th) and do not necessarily involve anyone with local knowledge of records. Don't post on Warwickshire and the Scavenger hunt at the same time because of overlap.

Are you sure you have made the correct connection to the William Fowler in Birmingham son of Richard and Elizabeth baptised 1795 not 1785?

WILLIAM FOWLER
Christening:  11 MAR 1795   Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick
Age at Christening:  1   
Father:  RICHARD FOWLER 
Mother:  ELIZABETH 

Have you used some of the Birmingham and Midland for Genealogy and Heraldry (local family history society) search services? e.g.

Aris's Birmingham Gazette Obituaries 1741 - 1861

http://www.bmsgh.org/search/sea1.html

With such a prominent family you would expect their deaths to have received obituaries. Knowing their date of deaths if you don't already means you can search for wills.

Post 1858 wills were probated nationally

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1176.htm

Pre 1858 most wills for Warwickshire people (wills were proved in church courts) were either proved in the Dioceses of Worcester or Lichfield. For Birmingham you would expect most wills to be held at Lichfield Record Office (sorry website down at the moment of posting but can be found easily through Google). Have you contacted Lichfield R O to see what they hold?

The BMGH would also know of local members who undertake research in archives and do so relatively cheaply and efficiently which if there are extensive records in Birmingham Archives for the family might be a way forward.


Regards

Valda

[dobfarm]

Hi

As Valda says making sure you have the right Richard to work back from in the 1841c. Birmingham is a large city even those days and covers a few counties, non more so than Lichfield with corners of Warwickshire, Staffordshire Herfordshire and even Derbyshire all very near.  East of Birmingham between Birmingham and Warwick town/city is Worcestershire with a pointed triangle  going up near Lichfield way and all these county corners could be concided part of Birmingham out parts.

Dobby

[coombs]

Richard may have come from one of the villages outside Birmingham which was in one of the surrounding counties such as Staffordshire or Worcestershire. It may be a good idea to see if there are any Fowlers around Richards age in the area in 1841 to see if they also say they weren't born in county. And you could also look at them in the same area your Richard lived in on the 1851 census to see what their birthplaces say.

I have a Smith ancestor who died in 1849 and he said he was not born in county in 1841. My 4xgreat grandmother was on the 1841 census in Marylebone, London and said she was not born in county and she died just weeks before the 1851 census. Sarah Bradford her name was, previously Coombs and her maiden name is unknown.

[dobfarm]

a maybe

Richard Fowler bapt 1777 Bridnorth Shropshire West Birmingham found on the net!
 Gen*s R*un*ted ( Expensive website and no proof of source) website no parents given! contact link below could be bapt abode place Dillon Priory!

Confirm with Links FHS below or Bridgnorth Library address online

X X

ANN WILKINSON 
  Marriage:  22 OCT 1810   Oadby, Leicester, England

Confirm  Leicester Library or FHS again addresses online

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~acwager/html/Shropshire_Addresses.htm
http://www.virtual-shropshire.co.uk/visitora/family_history.shtml

http://lrfhs.org.uk/

http://www.sfhs.org.uk/

 

[coombs]

Hi

A long shot but I found a Thomas Fowler in Birmingham in 1851 born Bridgnorth Shropshire.

A Richard Fowler was born in 1777 in Helaugh, Yorkshire and wed an Ann Gibson in Tadcaster about 1810. Possibility.

Ben

[Valda]

Hi

Richard Fowler born abt 1776 who states not born Warwickshire on the 1841 census. I would first check with the BMSGH marriage index to see whether the marriage between Richard and Ann can be found in the Birmingham area or not before going further afield.

They hold

Greater Birmingham Marriage Index 1776-1837, and Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Worcestershire marriage indexes and therefore have a much completer picture than the IGI gives

The IGI (free) alone gives 9 Richard Fowler baptisms within one year of the date 1776 including one in Staffordshire - Alston Field which is about 17 miles away from Birmingham (absolutely no proof that is the correct one). Bridgnorth in Shropshire is by no stretch of the imagination in West Birmingham, but Shropshire is a county now termed in the West Midlands. Bridgnorth is about 25 miles away from Birmingham but the 1777 baptism seems to be the one on the IGI in Ditton Priors close to Bridgnorth but further west (33 miles away from Birmingham). This Richard had 7 siblings baptised in Ditton Priors between 1767-1782 (no Thomases - there was one baptised in Bridgnorth in 1791 to different parents).

As Bridgnorth is to the west of Birmingham, Oadby in Leicestershire is to the east and 40 miles away in that direction.

I think with a relatively common name like Richard Fowler it is better to start from what is known and check through the baptisms for the children in Birmingham to see when the first child is baptised there to get a firmer date for the marriage and see what the BMSGH indexes come up with as not all the Birmingham parishes are covered by the IGI. The baptism would also confirm whether Richard was always a shoemaker from his first child's baptism.

Birmingham and Aston in 1841 were heavily populated areas attracting people from many areas so it is very possible that Richard came to Birmingham/Aston on his own and not with other members of his family but it is worth looking to see what other male Fowlers of the same age are in the area in the 1841 and 1851 censuses. You have to hope for younger siblings (of a similar class) since Richard was 65 in 1841. Unfortunately the born in and out of county yes/no on the 1841 census is unreliable particularly for out of county. The poor law system of settlement and removal orders still applied and this may be impacting on how truthful people were prepared to be about whether they were born in the area/county or not (even if they knew where the county boundaries ended, something many people don't know today so why should 1841 be any better). Since the surname Fowler is not uncommon you would expect to find Fowlers and it would be a case of seeing whether they can be eliminated.

Helaugh and Tadcaster are about 45 miles apart, one high up in the Dales and one close to York, so it would be a matter of trying to prove those Richard Fowler events were connected and if that was proved then connect them to Birmingham - what for instance might Ann born in Ireland  be doing in Tadcaster or Oadby? Birmingham on the otherhand is a city with a history of large Irish immigration, so as I said important to check the marriage didn't occur there first or in the surrounding areas, particularly Staffordshire (industrial black country) which adjoined Birmingham. Tadcaster is about 123 miles away from Birmingham.


Regards

Valda