Help please re travellers in North Yorkshire / Durham

[stroudie]

I wonder if anyone can help regarding the current scavenger hunt. We are looking for some apparently untraceable ancesters who appear to have connections to a family of hawkers by the name of Burnside, based around Guisborough and in Durham.

Particular interest is in the names SMITH (Mary b c1831 and Joseph b c 1857). BRADLEY, BURNSIDE or BURNSIDES and LEATHER.

Any help regarding explanation of name usage and changes is appreciated.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=422660.new#new

[JaneyJ]

Hi Stoudie,

I have about a dozen Burnside's in my tree all from the Guisborough and Durham areas.
Could you be a little more specific on who you would like to know about (ref the Burnsides) and I can look to see if I have any info which may help.

Jane.

[stroudie]

Hi Jane

Great to hear from you. Now, this is a little complicated - have a look at the scavenger hunt link is you can.

I am really trying to establish the origins of a Mary or Mary Ann Smith who was probably born in Guisborough around 1831. Also her son Joseph Smith b Guisborough c1857. Neither of them are traceable on the usual records and because of later links with the Burnside family, I suspect that Mary may have started life as Mary Burnside b Guis 1831, in the family below. She might also have been known as Mary Bradley.

She later became Grout (1868) and is then easily traceable. Ambrose and Isabella Burnside were witnesses to her marriage with Charles Grout in Durham.

Any information about this family or name links or details of who were the witnesses to the marriage of Ambrose and Isabella, might provide a clue; Ambrose Burnsides married Isabella Gordon Jan-Mar 1849 Easington Durham GRO Ref: 114/24

Children of Edward and Sarah Burnside

  Edward b 1824 Aycliffe d 1847 Guis

  Jonas b 1826 Aycliffe Iron miner

  Ambrose b 1829 Deighton, Northallerton occ hawker m Isabella Gordon b 1824

  Mary b 1831 Guis

  Benjamin b 1834 Guis Pottery hawker

  John b 1837 Guis d Easington Lane 1914 Wire screen hawker

  Sarah b 1840 Guis

  Isabella b 183 Guis

  Joseph b 1846 Guis

looking forward to hearing from you.

Julie

[JaneyJ]

Hi Julie,

Well I seem to have the same info as you, and I can see why you think that Mary Burnside and Mary Smith are the same person.

I'm afraid I do not have the original marriage cert' for Ambrose Burnside and Isabella Gordon, (died 28/11/1898 Airdrie), so I'm no help there  .

Did you know that Isabella went on to marry William Cunningham brn abt 1825 in Oldham, died 4/5/1900 in Airdrie

He was the widower of (I think, but have to confirm the link) her sister Margaret Gordon brn abt 1825 in Oldham. William and Margaret were my 2nd G/Grandparents.

I'm sorry I could not be of more help, but sometimes I've found, looking for other people on the census will bring up the person you are really interested in.

Hope someone out there has the info you need.

Jane

[stroudie]

Hi Jane

Thank you for this information. No I didn't know about Isabella's 2nd marriage. Do you know when this took place, as the death details for Ambrose Burnside may be useful.

Yes, it is a good tip to search for others

Julie

[lanelad]

Hi Julie, Fred here, sorry about the dates of Edward/Sarah`s children. According to 51 census Mary would be b.1834, another couple of them are slightly out. Between 1851-1861 the family seperated as:-
Edward 1824 died1847; Jonas stayed Gu. stone miner;Ambrose 1829to Durham C.
Mary1834 ;Benjamin1836(my 3xgtg/dad)to Durham then Chester le st. John1839 toHaswell then Easington Lane. Sarah1840 to Dur C. Isabella1843
?;Joseph1848 to Dur C. and Belmont.
I wonder if maybe Isabella 1843 could help. i will try and find her.
Note that the family and others like, lived in the St Giles dist. to the east of the city around the Sunderland rd. Gilesgate,Belmont, Dragonsville, Old Sherburn, and Carville are all a stones throw from each other.
                                       Fred.

[stroudie]

Hi Fred

Thanks for your input. I have just searched for Isabella and can't find her.

Yes, re St Giles area Mary and Charles Grout were married in Belmont in Aug 1869 with Ambrose & Isabella as witnesses. I don't know why they were there though. In Aug 1868 they had a child born in Brotton nr Guisborough and Charles was an ironstone miner and in 1871 they were in Brotton. Charles again ironstone miner.

Julie

[JaneyJ]

Hi Julie,

I'm afraid I don't know the date of Ambrose Burnsides death. I looked up the BMD on An***** and found an entry for a Ambrose Burnside:  Age 60, 1st Quarter 1884, Vol 10a, Page 134.

But....Isabella and William got together between 1871 and 1881, Isabella was living with Ambrose and their children in Durham in '71, and living with William Cunningham at Vinegar Hill, Glasgow, in '81.

I think I will have a quick look at the 1881 census for Ambrose to see if he was still alive then, I've just assumed that he was dead....you know what assume does in this game  .

I have the original death cert's for William and Isabella and they both mention their prev' spouses, but I could not find a marriage for them in SP, so I think they married in England.

This is side tracking from your original question, but you never know what helps.

I'll get back to you if I find anything more.

Jane.

[JaneyJ]

Hi Julie,

Disregard all ref to William Cunningham.

I've just found Isabella Burnsides with her children in 1881, living at 36 Bargate St, Linthorpe, Middlesborough, York's.
She is said to be a widow, so now know that the 1884 death entry is not our Ambrose.

I'm so sorry for mis-directing you, but in a way I am grateful to you too...it made me check my facts (or fiction) and I will now correct my tree  .

I'm just hoping that whoever reads this thread will read it all the way through, so they know that the info I have put on is incorrect.

Yours Jane.

WARNING INCORRECT INFO ON PREVIOUS POSTS REGARDING WILLIAM CUNNINGHAM