Finding records of a publican from Tottenham

[Hazel17]

I'm not sure if this thread would be best here or on the occupations board but here goes:

I have an ancestor who died in 1841 (unfortunately before the census  ) who is described as a licensed victauller - I have his death cert and will and he was resident in West Green, Tottenham.

I have a problem in tracing him further back as although I have an approximate year of birth going on the age in his death cert I have no other references to his age and none on his birth place. His marriage says of this parish so he could have been born in that parish or just a great a chance that he could have born absolutely anywhere else! I can see one possible baptism in Westminster and another in St Paul's.

Being a licensee I assume that somewhere there must be some paperwork related to his application for a license - I assume somewhere at the LMA. I tried looking on their website but got rather lost in their catalogue 

Has anyone got any ideas where I should start to look for an application to run a pub in Tottenham in the 1840s? There may be no clues in it to help me go further back but hopefully it might include something of interest.

In the 1820s and 30s from his children's baptisms and marriages I know he was an engraver and one baptism helpfully says at The Bank of England.  From their website I can see there are a few records in their archives regarding staff members in that period so there may be some clues there but when I shall get to London to look at them I don't know. 

Or if anyone has any better ideas on how to trace him back  let me know. Thanks

[nigelp]

If you post details of the marriage and death and anything of relevance from the will Rootschat members may be able to provide some assistance.

Nigel

[Hazel17]

More details as requested:

Charles Chance (died 12th April 1841 aged 53, so birth approx 1788). He probably married Jane Sheppard 2/03/1817 at St Botolph Aldersgate. I have a birth cert of what I hope is their youngest child coming to try and confirm Jane's maiden name. His will left everything to Jane.

First described as an engraver on a baptism in 1818, . Several further references to him as an engraver up to a baptism in 1835. Addresses are generally Newington Green and Islington. Generally used the churches of St Mary Islington and West Hackney. First described as a licensed victualler on his death cert and will. His children described him as publican or engraver on their marriages (all the marriages were after Charles died so I guess it depended on how they remembered him). I'm guessing he became a publican between 1835 and 1841. The move to Tottenham also appears to be the same period. I guess if he consistently worked at the Bank of England travellign from Islington/Newigton Green was a distance he could travel daily but Tottenham was a bit further hence the occupation change possibly. Could someone with better London geography knowledge than me agree or disagree with that?

In case anyone is looking I think I have extracted all I can from the Chance family from the LMA PRs on ancestry but I haven't tried trawling through any of the unindexed earlier entries. Charles could have come from London but equally he could have come from somewhere else. Any help appreciated 

[Lydart]

This may not be of any use ... but its a good site I found just today.

It covers lots of London and nearby counties ...



http://deadpubs.co.uk/index.shtml

[Hazel17]

Thanks Lydart. His widow was living at the Black Boy, West Green, Tottenham in 1841 which sounds like a pub name to me. It wasn' on that site but the site does say I need to look at the records of Petty Sessions fo Victuallers. I will have another go at the LMA catalogue armed with that info . I don't know why I didn' think to look at trade directories either. 

[elijah]

hi hazel

The Black Boy was indeed a pub at 268 West Green,  London, N15 3QR. It is now a 25 room Hotel and Bar which can be seen on Google Street.

                                               regards Elijah

[Valda]

Hi

The help guide at the top of the London and Middlesex boards

LINKS TO RECOMMENDED RESEARCH GUIDES – CHECK THESE OUT

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,403309.0.html

Lists the main research guides at the LMA including Licensed victuallers records and gives the links to the research guides. I doubt however licensed victuallers records would be much help in finding information on a person's place of birth since that would have been irrelevant information in gaining the licence.

The Bank of England archives may very well be more informative

'Can you do research on my behalf?
Unfortunately we do not have the resources to undertake extensive research projects, although we can usually check salary ledgers or small numbers of customer account indexes. If you are unable to visit in person, you are welcome to send someone on your behalf. Otherwise, we can advise on the use of independent researchers. Contact us for more information.'

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/archive/contact.htm

Regards

Valda

[Hazel17]

Hi Elijah - I had a look at that image. Thanks for the link  :)I wonder if the present building was built on the site of the original pub as I don't think the building looks as old as from the 1840s.

Valda, thanks for the link to research guides I shall have a good read of those as I have got nowhere with the LMA site.

I may still look at the licensed victuallers records just out of interest  - I have several publican ancestors so I would like to see what is in the records to see if it worth finding them for all of them. But I shall put trip to London to explore Bank Of England archives at the top of my wish lists of places to go. I think until I can visit London for a day or two then my research on Charles will have to come to an end.

[Hazel17]

I contacted the Bank of England archive via e-mail and as I was able to give a date range they searched all relevant documents such as salary ledgers. No Charles Chance listed there.  And I read the LMA guide and it seems that nothing for Tottenham in that period has survived regarding licensees.  So there ends the Chance line on my tree unless a baptism in a Islington/Tottneham/Aldersgate parish appears.
But I'm just posting this in case anyone else has Bank Of England ancestors and is wondering about contacting them. I think as I could give dates they were willing to look in some specific sources and they replied quickly.