Germany: Another German Pork Butcher - STEIN

[hilg]

I am trying to find out more about my German ancestors.  My gg grandfather - Leonhard Johann Stein (b.1844)- came to London from Germany in the 1860's.  He married Margaretha Sophia Katharina Wittmann(b.1847) at the German Lutheran Church in Alie St. Whitechapel on 19.12.1869.  They anglicised their name to Stone during WW1 when they experienced intimidation etc. He was a pork butcher and they lived and worked in Whitechapel.  From their marriage cert I know that his father was a farmer called Johann Georg Stein and her father was a stone mason called Georg Michael Wittmann. Unfortunately I have no idea where they came from in Germany. my late father thought his father mentioned Stuttgart. I have read the book by Sue Gibbons and trawled through various websites but it seems that if I don't know whereabouts they came from I am stuck.  One other thing - a marriage witness was Christian Wittman whom I have assumed was Catherine's brother. I have found him as a baker married to an Englishwoman in the 1881 census. Any suggestions at all would be welcomed.   I have read quite a few similar posts on this topic and tried to find passenger lists etc to no avail.

[Histres]

Hello hilg,
There was a German community in London, called “Little Germany" by the English, concentrating in the quarters Whitechapel, St. George’s and Mile End in the East End. There it was specific streets in which the German immigrants preferably settled (Lit.: Manz, Stefan: Migranten und Internierte: Deutsche in Glasgow, 1864-1918 ). Most of the Germans were members of the German Church in Whitchapel. Perhaps your predecessors can be found in the church archive.
Another possibility: Try the Anglo German Family History Society that has regular meetings at King’s Cross. The East London History Society might also be of interest for you. There are two very good historians who are doing historical research and family research. Their names are Derek Morris and Ken Cozens. As soon as you found out the birthplaces in Germany, I could send you a few hints where to get further information on the German side.
If you have any photos of the shop front, showing the German specialities on display in the window, I would be interested in getting a copy.
Regards
Histres

[hilg]

Hello Histres - thanks for your message.  I have looked at the websites of both the German Lutheran Church which was interesting, and the AGFHS and considered joining the latter.  I will pursue the avenues you suggest.  Since writing yesterday I have looked back over some notes my Dad left before he died. He thinks his gandfather came from Bavaria and his grandmother from the Stuttgart area.  He also mentions that she came over here to work as a nanny.  He also notes their exact dates of birth which should help. I know the key is to narrow down their place of origin. Re your request for a photo - I think my uncle may have a photo of the shop front with the family standing outside.  I'll find out and get back to you.  Thank you for your interest - Hilg

[Histres]

Hello hilg,
Stuttgart and Bavaria, that sounds like your forfathers had come from an area in between, called Hohenlohe, where most of the German pork butchers in Britain originated from. The names you mentioned are also very, very common in this area. To find out more about that, read the essay I once wrote. You find it in the Internet: http://www.google.de/search?source=ig&hl=de&rlz=1G1GGLQ_DEDE257&q=New+light+on+the+German+pork+butchers&meta=lr%3D&aq=f&oq=
As soon as you posted a third message you will be able to send and receive personal messages. Then I could send you a map that shows the area in question.
Best wishes
histres

[hilg]

Hello Histres

I did quite a bit of reading around on Rootschat before I posted my message yesterday and I have already read your essay which I found very interesting - I just wasn't sure where Hohenlohe was!  I have just tried to call my uncle to see if he has the photo of the family business but without success. I will try again tomorrow.  I have definitely seen a photo but it may not be of John and Catherine's shop - all four sons became butchers, including, of course, my grandfather - so it may be one of their shops.  I also now think that it was only the sons who changed their surnames during WW1 - my uncle has his father's deedpoll.  This afternoon I have found death cert. records on Freebmd.com in the name of Stein for John and Catherine and they would have been in their early 70's during that period so may have retired and not needed to change their name.  I will let you know if/when I have found photo of the shop.  Hilg

[0113vanny]

the sister of my great grandmother was called matilda wittmann, married to a pork butcher george wittmann, butchers in Hull in 1881.  sister called Rose steinbach.   they were probbly all related.