Author Topic: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please  (Read 8966 times)

Offline Gem71

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Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« on: Friday 20 November 09 13:36 GMT (UK) »
Look-up 1851, 1871, 1881,

This is the family in the 1861 census but i cant find them on any other census, can anyone help please.

Willian Bamber Age50- Ag Labourer born Thornton Lancs.
Wife , Ann             : 33                          :    Wigan
Dau,   Catherine     15  Cotton Weaver b     :
  :        Jane           : 17 Scolar                b     :
Son     James         : 3     :                      b     :

Civil Parish Wigan
Eccles: Parish St Thomas
RD Wigan
ED21.

Many thanks in advance.


Offline yonderpeasant

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #1 on: Friday 20 November 09 14:20 GMT (UK) »
can only find Catherine in 1851 at the moment with grandparents
Patricks Row Wigan HO107 2199 759 19
Patrick Sherry head mar 68 handloom cotton weaver b Ireland
Ann sherry       wife mar  68                                       b.Ireland
Catherine Bamber grandaughter 5 b.Wigan
also in the Household
James Whelan 48 b.Ireland
 Bridget Whelan 48     do
James Whelan     9       do
This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Ridgway.  
 Salop.Lancs.Stoke on Trent.
Colclough.Ackley.Adams.Harris.James
 Longton  Stoke on trent Staffs.
Scholes.Collinge
 Middleton Lancs.
Gogerty.Deavonporte
Salop.

Offline karenbest500

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 November 09 14:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

Had a thorough look through the census but not achieved much.  I found the one you have(1861) but you have put Catherine down as a daughter she was in fact Williams niece and her surname was Lowe.

I found Williams marriage to Ann (Sherry), Jan - Mar 1845 Wigan vol 12 pg 639.

Also on the 1861 census it has Ann Sherry (mother-in-law), aged 80, born Ireland. I think she was in fact grandmother-in-law as I found Ann (Williams wife) in 1841 in Wigan with father Phillip (35) and mother Catherine (35) both born in Ireland with Ann(13),Thomas(11),Catherine(8), Ellen(6), Mary(3) and Elizabeth(1).

I think your best bet would be to get the marriage certificate and work from there to confirm Anna parents and get Williams fathers name.

Regards
K
Evans-Manchester & Derbyshire
Crellin-Manchester
Herbert- Lledrod, Abergwesyn, Treharris & Ebbw Vale
Hayfield- Derbyshire & Manchester
Williams-(Llanafanfawr) Breconshire
Critchley-(Altrincham) Cheshire
Bather-Lancashire
Ireland- Preston & Manchester
Hankey-Lancashire

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #3 on: Friday 20 November 09 14:34 GMT (UK) »
1871 ref RG10 piece 3933 folio 140 page 48

William and 3 children, Catherine, 25, James 23, Sarah 20 (there is a birth in Dec 1850 which could be her).  William is a widower working as a cotton picker, Catherine is a housekeeper, James a cotton carder and Sarah a cotton winder.  There is also a lodger.

Lizzie


Offline yonderpeasant

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #4 on: Friday 20 November 09 15:14 GMT (UK) »
karenbest there are 2 Catherines on the 1861 Catherine Bamber daughter and Catherine Lowe Neice

Ann Sherry seems to be Ann Bamber(Sherrys) mother

they are together in 1841
Patricks Row 
Patrick Sherry 50
ann Sherry      50
ann sherry      15
This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Ridgway.  
 Salop.Lancs.Stoke on Trent.
Colclough.Ackley.Adams.Harris.James
 Longton  Stoke on trent Staffs.
Scholes.Collinge
 Middleton Lancs.
Gogerty.Deavonporte
Salop.

Offline Gem71

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #5 on: Friday 20 November 09 22:36 GMT (UK) »
Many, many thanks for the help and advice it is very much appreciated.

1871 Ref RG 10 piece3933 folio 140 page98.
 Sorry don't think this is the right family, but ill keep them on file.


I think the marriage certificate for William and Ann will have to be my next move, wish me luck,  once again many thanks for your help and time.


Offline LEP1950

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 14 January 10 22:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Karenbest500's information is incorrect. It's a different Ann. Your Ann married William Bamber. She's the daughter of William and Ann Sherry, who were both born around 1780/82 in Ireland. She seems to be the youngest child. The Ann Sherry in 1861 really is the mother-in-law. William's parents were Patrick and (another) Ann. They are in the 1851 census on ancestry.co.uk as PATRICK CHERREY. Catherine Bamber (i.e. Ann and William Bamber's daughter) either  lived with them or was there on census night. The mentioned Catherine Lowe is the daughter of Ann Bamber's , nee Sherry, sister Bridget, who married Thomas Lowe. Bridget died quite young, I think in 1854, which may be why Catherine was living with her aunt. Ann and Bridget had at least one elder brother callled William. One of his children - Bridget - married the brother of my great-grandfather. That's why I know all this. I haven't got my notes in front of me at the moment, but I can give you some death and marriage dates if you are interested.

Regards,
LEP

P.S. The above-mentioned mother-in-law died at son William's house (11, Morris's Yard, Duke Street) aged 86.

Offline Gem71

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #7 on: Friday 15 January 10 17:43 GMT (UK) »
hello LEP, Many thanks for getting in touch and for your king offer it is very much appreciated.

Before accepting you very kind offer I have to say we are having some problems in establishing Catherine Bamber as the mother of the 3 children born to John Sherliker, Tinplate Worker, b,Preston.

After a very extensive searches on Ancestry, findmypast, IGI, Lancs BMD no record of birth for the 3 children had been.
However a request for a look-up on here did turn up a birth record for a Nellie Sherleker 1883 in Wigan.
We got the Certificate from Wigan.
Ft, John Sherleker - Tinplate Worker - b Preston.
Mother, Catherine Hickman.

Without a birth certificate for anyone of the other two children its impossible to be certain that the Catherine Bamber married to John Sherliker in Wigan 1979 is the correct family.

Do you have any informatiom on William Bamber married to Ann Sherry, had William Bamber been married before, was Catherine Bamber,  Ann Bambers ( Sherry) .Mother.

Any thing that you can think of that might help untangle this knot would be very, very welcome.

So sorry for such a long winded reply, just dont want to waste your time or abuse your kind offer if we have the wrong Catherine.

Regards, Gem


Offline LEP1950

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Re: Look-up Census 1851, 1871, 1881, please
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 January 10 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gem,

You certainly seem to have a problem. Since I'm at a dead end with my own research at the moment; I thought I'd try to help. Well here goes:

PATRICK and ANN SHERRY had (at least) the children
WILLIAM, BRIDGET and ANN.

The youngest ANN married WILLIAM BAMBER in 1845 (Wigan reference ROW/3/11)
They had (at least) the children JANE (b. abt. 1845), CATHERINE (b. 1847) and JAMES (b. 1858). They also probably had a son called WILLIAM who died at the age of 12 days on 9th October 1860 and most likely a daughter called MARY ANN, b. 1864. One could assume because of the big age difference that Catherine and Jane could be the children of a first marriage, but there is no evidence of this. Ann and William were already married in 1845. I suspect they lost several children, like most other people at that time. The family are hard to find in 1851. Catherine was, of course, staying with her grandparents SHERRRY, and there was a Jane of the right age staying with a grandmother BAMBER in Blackburn. However, I don't know whether she is the correct Jane as she supposedly was not born in Wigan.

In 1861, the family is together with grandma SHERRY and Bridget's daughter CATHERINE LOWE.
However, there is also another Catherine Bamber aged 8, born abt 1853, in this census. She is the daughter of JAMES BAMBER, 40, and ELLEN BAMBER, 38. She has three sisters, Mary, 16, Ann, 10, and Abigail, 2.

It seems to me that these two CATHERINE BAMBERS married in 1874 and 1879 respectively:

CATHERINE BAMBER married WILLIAM COX in 1874 (ROW/37/191), which indicates a RC marriage where the registrar was present. William Bamber was CofE, but Ann Sherry was an Irish Catholic, who would presumably have wanted the children baptised as Catholics.

The other CATHERINE BAMBER married JOHN SHERLIKER in 1879 (C11/4/26). This was a Church of England marriage.

If I were guessing, I'd say you need the other Catherine and not the one with the Sherry ancestry. But perhaps I am wrong. Have you bought this marriage certificate?

The COXes are easy to find in the 1881 census, They have John, 12, who was probably from a first marriage, William,6, Joseph,4, and Ellen, 6. The name Ellen makes me hesitate a little as the mother of the CATHERINE BAMBER, b. 1853 was Ellen. It was usual to call one of the daughters after the grandmother.

I can't find the SHERLIKERs (and all kinds of variations of the name) at all. In Preston in the 1881 census, in St Peter's district, there is a John Sherliker, aged 45, who is married but living alone as a boarder, but he seems to work in a cotton factory. There's also an Alice Sherlicer, 35, which would be the correct age. She's a cotton weaver (weren't they all?) and is also living alone although married, in the same district. This Alice seems to have died aged 56 in 1914, which would place her birth at the time of CATHERINE BAMBER nee SHERRY. There is the possibility that her name was CATHERINE ALICE and that in later life she preferred to be called Alice. I know this seems far-fetched, but it did actually happen. No Catherine Sherliker died in Lancashire in the 100 years folllowing Catherine Bamber's birth. There was also no marriage of a Sherlicker to a Hickman. I couldn't find the birth of Nellie in 1883, but it obviously happened if you have the birth cerificate. Could she have possibly been John's illegitimate daughter with Catherine Hickman? Illegitimate children certainly weren't unusual in those days  among the lower classes.

You can't find the BAMBERs after 1861 because (1) William Bamber died on 16th December 1869 and (2) Ann was probably listed as Sherry and not Bamber. In 1871, she seems to have been living with her brother JAMES (another candidate as a child of Patrick and Ann Sherry, together with Owen and a couple of others that I can't yet prove) and child MARY ANN BAMBER, aged 7.  James probably told the censor Ann was his sister and so he wrote down Sherry. At any rate,  ANN BAMBER died at the same address (Patrick's Row, Wigan Lane) on 9th July 1880 and so did not appear in any more censuses.

That's all I can tell you at the moment. What were the names of the SHERLIKER/BAMBER children? I'm often messing about on ancestry and other sites and would keep things in mind.

Good luck with your search!
LEP