Charles Surrender Smith CLOSED

[lizdb]

OK got it
RG11 3027 128 25

35 Railway Terrace

but he is only 18 and born Aston?

[Myrrh]

I am not sure what you mean by where I got the information from. Given my grandfather's birthdate and birthplace, I found him in the 1901 census in Villa Street, Aston, which is where he was born, lived and died.  I knew his Mother was called Minnie and there she was. I knew his father had died young, and there he wasn't in 1901, but was in 1891.

I found a death certificate of Charles Surrender Smith in 1900.  I looked in the 1891 census and found Minnie married to a Charles, with the correct occupation, as stated on the death certificate.

It is prior to that I'm not sure of.  A Charles Smith was in Railway Terrace as a Brassroller.   It's a question of is this the Charles Smith who married Minnie, or was it the son of George and Martha - was he also a Brassroller or dresser?   Can he be found? I'm afraid I'm not signed up at the moment.  This query was posted originally several months ago.

Myrrh

[avm228]

I think what lizdb was asking was where you got the information that the relevant Charles' parents were Charles SMITH and Emma/Emily PATRICK from Leicestershire.

You said early on that you didn't like Charles Serendar SMITH because his parents didn't match - presumably meaning they were inconsistent with your belief that the correct parents for the Charles who married Minnie (and died as Charles Surrender SMITH) were Charles and Emma/Emily, not George and Martha.  But you haven't said what is the basis for that belief.

You also said in the first post on the thread that the right Charles was born in Aston - but the only census on which you have him linked to Minnie is the 1891, and on that one he says he was born Birmingham.

We're just trying to understand and therefore be better able to help

Anna

[avm228]

It's a question of is this the Charles Smith who married Minnie, or was it the son of George and Martha - was he also a Brassroller or dresser?   

With a name as common as Charles SMITH (and no in-laws with Charles & Minnie in 1891) the only way you will be able to ascertain the details of his father with any confidence will be to purchase Charles & Minnie's marriage certificate.

[CaroleW]

Hi Myrrh

I though I had made it clear in my pm to you as well as in the queries above that what we want to know is how you know that Charles Surrender Smith's parents were Charles Smith & Emily/Emma Patrick?

You don't have a birth cert for him and you don't have his marriage cert to Minnie/Winnie to check his fathers name yet you have said: -

Just to say I am aware of a listing on LDS of a Charles Serendar Smith, but the parents' names don't match

His parents were Charles Smith and Emily (or Emma) Patrick, both from Leicestershire.  Charles Jnr was born in B'ham in I think 1861,

The Charles jnr you refer to is Charles Surrender Smith who we know from census entries was b Birmingham

So - where did you get the info from that his parents were Charles Smith and Emily/Emma Patrick

[Myrrh]

Absolutely, and that is what I intend to do, now Anna has found the marriage of Charles and Minnie "Winnie", Evans, which I couldn't find previously.

Other than that, it was circumstantial evidence only which led me to believe Charles and Emily were the parents, such as occupation, dates, area of Birmingham (I would have thought on a census you might get Aston or Birmingham reported as place of birth - were the enumerators really that exact?? When he was at home, and when he was gone (married?).  And I couldn't find a trace of the other Charles, son of George and Martha, going forward, although obviously I could never quite ignore this possibility, due to the similarity in the name.   I suppose one instinctively goes with the revolving door, rather than the brick wall.

This Charles had an elder brother Arthur, and one of my Charles' sons was named Arthur.  Once I get the marriage cert, I'll know which family for sure, but I guess I'll never know why the strange middle name, whether it was Surrender  or Surendar, or whatever.

Thanks for your interest.  I'll see what I get.  Glad the marriage has been found.  Off to bed now.
Myrrh