John DREDGE and Elizabeth STONE

[nigelp]

Hi Heywood,

There is plenty of scope for confusion here!

The John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone is consistently indicated as born in Britford in all of the censuses up to 1871. However, this does not necessarily mean that he was baptised in Britford. Downton is a neighbouring parish and I have ancestors who were born in Britford and baptised in Downton.

As matters stand the birth / baptism issue for the John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone is confusing. There is a baptism for a John Dredge on 1 June 1817 in Downton and who is the son of Moses and Anne. From the ages in the Census entries this may be the correct entry.

The Census entries suggest that the above baptism is not for the John Dredge born in Redlynch (Downton) and who married Caroline Penn because this John Dredge was born between 1819 and 1821.

There is also a John Dredge baptised at the Baptist Chapel in Downton on 8 March 1818 which doesn't appear to fit well with the Census entries although it cannot be eliminated at present for the marriage of the John Dredge to Elizabeth Stone.

Finally, the baptism records for Britford are not in the IGI and there could, therefore, be a relevant baptism (or baptisms) in Britford.

I may have an opportunity to visit the WRO tomorrow although this may not help because it won't have the marriage in 1837 in Wincanton.

Nigel

[janeeliza999]

Hi Nigel and Heywood
I know that birth dates are not set in stone and ages on census dates can vary.
I have not , unfortunately, seen any birth or marriage certificates at this time.
The only thing that keeps me thinking that Moses is not his  father is that he has only one son by the name of John, who was born about 1817-1820,and married Caroline Penn.
My GGG Grandfathers name is Thomas Stone Dredge (sometimes written Thommas)
Births Sep 1842
Dredge Thomas Stone Alderbury    8   227
His father is John Dredge
In the 1841 census he is down as being born Wilts.

All of Moses Dredges family are born Downton.
Another troubling thing is that 2 of Moses Dredges sons are down as dying on the same date.
John Dredge and Thomas Dredge. Both 22 April 1877.There was a 3rd son on that day too but then I found a different date for him.

Thank you Heywood for saying that 2 + 2 = 5 on this one. My thoughts exactly.
How could I get hold of Britford Parish records?
I live in Cheshire
As you say this is a confusing one !

Many thanks again
Jane

[nigelp]

Hi Jane,

I have sent you a PM about Britford.

Moses does appear to have only one son John. However, based on the current evidence and without having seen the marriage certificate I am not sure why you believe Moses is the father of the John Dredge who married Caroline Penn.

Nigel

[janeeliza999]

  Hi Nigel

   
John Dredge
Born  8 Jun 1817 - Downton, Wilts (Wiltshire)
Died  22 Apr 1877 - Wilts (Wiltshire)
Married 14 Jan 1850 - Downton, Wilts (Wiltshire)
Spouse Caroline Penn    

Parents Moses Dredge and Anne Nicholas

This is on a public member tree on Ancestry

Jane

[heywood]

Goodmorning,
I've just come to this early and haven't checked Ancestry but Trees on there are often totally fictitious in that people seem to spot a name and claim it. You could perhaps contact the person but also look to see what evidence they show to support the claim.

However, Jane I don't quite understand re the deaths. You will know when your John died - surely that certificate would show the date and hopefully something which would indicate which John (married to either Caroline or Elizabeth). I know it wouldn't necessarily give the spouse but it would give a clue re address and perhaps the informant 

heywood

PS
just realised that you can get the Dredge/Caroline Penn marriage certificate and that would confirm that Moses is the father so he could then be eliminated from this particular scenario. Even if that family is not yours it may be worth getting the certificate just to prove/disprove this.

[heywood]

Thought I'd have a quick check - can't see John and Caroline in 1871 but they are in 1881 census -John born Redlynch. So, if this is them, he is not the one who dies in 1877. In fact, John and caroline seem to be in 1901 census.

Have checked Ancestry Family Tree  - there are no historical records to verify the claims.

However, after reading over this- am not sure whether Jane, you are undecided about Moses and John or whether you believe that Moses is your John's father 

[janeeliza999]

Hi Heywood

I believe that Moses is not my Johns Father.
I have looked at a family tree of my second cousin and hers stops at John Dredge.
I have emailed her to see if she has any information on this, but as she is in Canada, she may not have the mail yet.

Jane

[nigelp]

Hi Jane,

I was able to visit the WRO earlier this afternoon to look at relevant original records.

The marriage between John Dredge and Caroline Penn was by Banns on 14 January 1850 in Downton. John was a bachelor and labourer of Redlynch. Caroline was a spinster of Charlton. The fathers of the Groom and Bride are incorrectly reversed in the certificate but are Moses Dredge, labourer and John Penn, labourer. Both parties left their mark and the wedding was witnessed by Sarah Dredge (her mark) and Henry (looked like Eldridge but I cannot be certain).

Moses is, therefore, not the father of the John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone. The LDS entry is, therefore, incorrect.

Moving on to Britford I found the following baptism:

4 Jan 1818 - John son of Peter & Ann Dredge, Britford, carpenter

Peter and Ann would, therefore, appear to be the parents of the John Dredge who married Elizabeth Stone bearing in mind the census entries give John's place of birth as Britford. This baptism, therefore, appears to be what you require for your tree. There were no other John Dredges baptised in Britford in the period 1795 - 1825.

I noted the following additional baptisms in Britford of children for Peter and Ann:

24 Feb 1805 - Mary Anne
19 Apr 1807 - Elizabeth
19 Jan 1812 - Peter
24 Sep 1815 - Hannah (privately baptised on 6 Oct 1814 - father's occupation given as carpenter)

The records for Britford prior to 1812 are not easy to read and follow. I may, therefore, have missed a child. However, there was no obvious baptism in the period 1807 - 1812.

I didn't have a lot of time but did, however, also note the following baptisms for Britford:

14 Aug 1842 - Thomas Stone son of John & Elizabeth Dredge, Britford, carpenter
30 Jun 1844 - Ann White dter of John & Elizabeth Dredge, Britford, carpenter
19 Sep 1847 - Eliza Pitt dter of John & Elizabeth Dredge, Britford, carpenter

Being short of time I was only able to quickly glance at the Burials but did note the following:

6 Apr 1839 - Anne Dredge, Britford, aged 63 (presumably the wife of Peter)
3 Dec 1809 - Elizabeth Dredge (identified as dter of Peter & Ann)

From the GRO records Peter Dredge may have died in 1854 (GRO: 5a 132 Alderbury Jun 1854).

I haven't been able so far to find the marriage for Peter Dredge and Ann(e).

I hope the above information is helpful.

Nigel

[heywood]

Nigel- how kind of you and that looks good.

It does add to my theory that Peter was a possible- both carpenters.

He is in 1841 census -transcribed as 'Bredge' and in 1851 as Dredge- born Hampshire.
I also think that someone has a submission on Family Search for him which gives a surname for Ann but whether it is right or not 

heywood