Robert Monteith - Irish Volunteers

[corisande]

Can one of the cognoscenti identify this uniform for me, it is said to be "pre 1916" and is from a "propaganda postcard"

The man wearing it is one Captain Robert Monteith, his title Captain comes from Irish Volunteers, and it is he who landed at Banna Strand with Casement. I am trying to find out something about Monteith's life, so anything else would be useful

I have read Monteith's own "Casement's Last Adventure" but have not been able to read "The mystery man of Banna Strand" (I live in Spain, so cannot get it from a library, and none are availble for purchase on the web)

[Oaks and Acorns]

Online copy here:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/07du/

Doerries’ book “Prelude to the Easter Rising” gives quite a bit of info on Monteith. Limited preview here:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/07dv/

Have fun.

Dara.

[corisande]

Dara that link to online copy of "Mystery Man on Banna Strand" was really useful
(for anyone want the book, it has moved to this location now)

I have got the Prelude to the Easter Rising, and it has been useful and eye-opening. So anyone wanting anything on Casement and the Irish Brigade wants to take a look at that book

[Oaks and Acorns]

Sorry about the bad link. I think there's a conflict between RootsChat's shrink link and WorldCat's temporary links.

Hope you find what you're looking for.

Dara.

[HugoBeauchamp]

The picture below shows Capt Monteith in a similar pose!

The picture below is a postcard/photograph that was sent to my father by his father on 31st October 1914 and was posted in Phibsborough. My grandfather is 2nd from the right - not 3rd from the right as detailed below.

We also have a copy of the photograph where the names of the officers shown are noted as follows ...................
Capt. R Monteith, Chief Instr. CJ Bodkin, Capt R Daly, Capt M Judge, Capt. TW Kerrigan, Capt T McDonagh, Capt JF Magee,
Capt. J Lenehan, Capt. V McGarry

The photograph seems to have been around the block a few times, it can be seen in the following books ....................

1916: The Easter Rising by Tim Pat Coogan (Page 47) and

The Howth Gun-Running 1914 by FX Martin OSA (Opposite page 134)
The caption beneath the photograph says "Volunteer officers receive orders before the march. Capt Monteith at extreme left; Capt Judge fifth from left."

If the caption to the photograph is correct (I wonder?) it would date the photo to the day of the landing at Howth on 26 July 1914.

H

EDIT 31Dec09

[corisande]

Hugo

That must be the very earliest example of PhotoShop that I have seen!

The photo I put up of Monteith alone is from a "propoganda" postcard, I guess they wanted all those captains in the one photo, and "dropped" him in

If you go to the link given in this thread and plough your way through the Mystery Man on Banna Strand, you can, I think find out what Monteith was doing the day of the gun running at Howth. From memory he was not there, but went back the next day and rescued rifles.

Given that I am not convinced that he was originally photographed with the group, it may or may not give you corroboration for the date of the group.

Is your grandfather the chap that went on to join the RDF, or is that another member of your family?

I'll say this for the lads, they enjoyed the uniforms - in Monteith's diary he notes he paid £25 for his uniform in Germany, and that in 1915, having alreay paid for his Irish one above.

[HugoBeauchamp]

You have now set me wondering!

Given that the title of the postcard refers to the National Volunteers, it seems that FX Martin's caption in his book 'The Howth Gun-Running 1914'  - " "Volunteer officers receive orders before the march.................." may not be correct - since the 'split' in the 'Irish Volunteers had not yet taken place. I understand the split occurred shortly after John Redmond's 'Woodenbridge speech' on 20 September 1914 and therefore the name National Volunteers (INV) had not come into existence.

Alternatively, is FX Martin's caption correct and the INV 'hijacked' the photograph and had it made into postcards after their formation? The only thing I know for certain is that the postcard is postmarked 31 October 1914 or could that have been manipulated as well?

I do like your idea about photoshop - looking at the photo you have posted looks to me more as if Monteith was 'lifted' from the Volunteers photo and 'planted' in yours rather than the other way around. Monteith's legs and feet look to be in focus with the surrounding ground in the 'group' photo whereas the ground on which he is standing in your photo is not. What do you think?

The photograph that I posted was taken from a slightly different angle from the one in FX Martin's book, Monteith is partially obscured by Ch Instructor Bodkin, but the composition and subjects are identical even Monteith's 'pose'!

I also notice that Monteith's cap badge is different from that of the other officers in both group photos, his looks like an Irish Harp. A member of a military history list suggests that the cap badge is that of Dublin Regiment of the National Volunteers - you can see an expample on 'Memorabilia from The 1916 Easter Rising, its Prelude and Aftermath' at .......

http://www.theeasterrising.eu/120Volunteers/NV.htm

there is also a copy of the photo I posted as well.

(My grandfather is still looking at the camera in the FX Martin's photo & yes, he did join the RDF in 1915.)

[corisande]

I have no real idea as to which he was lifted from in order to go into the other.

Logically one would think they added him to the group in order to make it complete for all Captains.

Monteith in the group appears to have a slightly different uniform - viz no white shirt under the tunic, and a different collar to his tunic.

Either way it is only one photo of Monteith in my opinion.

I am no expert on the Volunteers ( ;-) )

I got that photo of Monteith here where the whole group are called "propaganda postcards", and once you get into propaganda there is no telling where the truth lies

I would assume the postmark of your photo is correct if it is readable and was sent within the family - no particular reason for them to change the dates - though you can see there are other vested interests!

That's cleared up your grandfather - I assume he was never taken prisoner, so the question of joining the Irish Brigade in Germany under Monteith never came up. Which is where I came in to the Monteith saga

[bannastrand]

Hi Corisande. I am a relation of Robert Monteith. Have been researching him on and off for a long time. Yours, bannastrand