Author Topic: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]  (Read 17488 times)

Offline Jeffb

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #18 on: Friday 11 March 11 07:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, have now tried a personal message. Obviously help is a two way thing as Olive may have information which is useful to me, we might even have a common ancestor!
Jeff

Offline prbibby

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 13 April 11 06:35 BST (UK) »
Like JeffB, I seem to have come into this rather late. I'd certainly be interested in swapping notes with Jeff if we are the only two with current interests here.

 Hodge Hall was a farm at the southern limit of the township of Mottram (within what is now Broadbottom). As far as I am aware it is only referred to as 'Hodge Hole' in the Land Tax. The farmhouse still survives, divided into cottages called 'Hodgefold.'  It is a late 17th century building with a 1676 datestone. It is on the statutory list and you will find a picture and a brief description on English Heritage's Images of England website
(http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/Details/default.aspx?pid=2&id=212514).

Most material associated with Hodge Hall  - there is very little- is in the Tollemache (Wilbraham of Woodhey) collection  (DTW) at the Cheshire county record office. For most of the eighteenth century it was held by the Bowers family
The identification of Hodge Hall with Hodgefold is quite clear.  There is a sketch plan connected to a proposed lease to Binns and Shaw of parcels of land for the construction of a cotton mill amongst the expired and counterpart leases in the DTW series in Cheshire County Record office which shows the position of Hodge Hall obviously where Hodge Fold. (within DTW/2477/F/12)   Mollie Sayer at Broadbottom CA took this information from me. There is also among the DTW collection at the Cheshire County Record Office a plan of 1830 of land leased by Admiral Tollemache to Edward Moss  (to whom Jeff refers) which clearly marks what is now called Hodge Fold as Hodge Hall ( DTW/48) 

There are, however,  no maps at a suitable scale from before 1800 at John Rylands, or as far as I am aware anywhere else. There was an estate plan produced in 1771 which would have shown Hodge Hall and the associated parcels of land, but this does not survive. I have been attempting to reconstruct this plan. The extent of the land parcels associated with Hodge Hall is, however clear.

The discussion of Matley, I'm afraid is a red herring. Matley was another township within Mottram parish, but has nothing to do with Hodge Hall. The Matley family, however, are connected with Hodge (see below). Samuel Matley moved his printworks from Red Bank in Manchester to Hodge (Mottram) in 1804/5

My understanding is that the Edward Moss that JeffB  refers to is Edward son of Arthur and Martha Moss of Mossley. He seems to have married in Cartmel in what is now Cumbria where I suspect he worked at the Cark Cotton Mill and was working at Hodge from 1789. From about 1789 to 1796 in was in partnership with John Swindells and Strettel Seddon at 'Hodge Mill' a converted fulling mill on the foundations of which Hodge Cottage now stands. His partnership with Swindells and Seddon broke up in 1796. Seddon started a new mill at Prestolee near Bolton, Swindells carried on running Hodge Mill, and Edward Moss built his new mill (also referred to as Hodge Mill- but also Wharf Mill and Moss Mill) close by. in 1796. This was built with the benefit of a 99 year building lease from Wilbraham Tollemache  to himself Robert Moss and Anthony Hardy. John Swindells subsequently went into partnership with his son in law John Dale operating their Hodge Mill until 1804 when they went bankrupt. The site was then taken over by Samuel Matley and Company who ran it as the Hodge Printworks. Edward Moss continued running his Hodge Mill (Wharf Mill) as Jeff states. I think (until he let it to the Becketts as I'm sure Jeff will have discovered) he occupied the whole of that 'Hodge Mill' which he had built in 1796. The spatial relation between the two mills is evident from a sale plan from 1840. The best description of Moss's Hodge Mill that I have come across is in auction details from the Manchester Times and Gazette for 27th July 1833.



Offline bodger

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 13 April 11 09:46 BST (UK) »
For what it may be worth, when i lived in the area, the cross road on the "Back Moor ", Stalybridge rd was always referred to as the Tollemache
Attenborough, Bacon,Melbourne, Thorpe, Ride,Simpson/ Derbyshire, Judson,Bacon,/Keighley,
Lockett/ Manchester, Harling/ Lancaster & Manchester

Offline Jeffb

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 14 April 11 16:54 BST (UK) »
prbibby - just to let you know that I have seen your message - many thanks for the response. I am currently away on holiday, due to return on 24th April at which time I will be delighted to swap notes etc.
Jeffb


Offline Jeffb

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 15 September 11 10:35 BST (UK) »
prbibby    I sent a couple of p.m.s to you regarding Hodge Hall - did you get them?

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 15 September 11 15:36 BST (UK) »
prbibby    I sent a couple of p.m.s to you regarding Hodge Hall - did you get them?

Prbibby hasn't returned to rootschat since their original post. You are unable to send PM's to other members until they have made three posts, so prbibby can't have received your messages as they have only made one post. Lets hope they have enabled notification of replies and see that you wish to make contact.

Offline Jeffb

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 15 September 11 17:12 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the information/advice - I hadn't realised!

Offline Olive H

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 19 February 15 14:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi all following this thread,
Thanks for the interesting information Jeff.
It was actually a probate search on the Cheshire Wills database that had got me intrigued with Hodge Hall. There is an entry for a Ralph Bowers (minor), 1734. I have an ancestor with Ralph Bower as the first two parts of his name, born in Mottram in Longendale. I was speculating that there is a likely connection with this Ralph Bowers somewhere along the line,though have not been able to make the connection as of yet. This is what has got my interest in Hodge Hall. Jeff: you mentioned Hodge Hall being in the Bowers family for most of the 18th century in your post - was it likely the Bowers who built Hodge Hall? Who were the Bowers. Do any of you have any connection to them or information on them? Many Thanks..
Regards,
Olive

Offline Jeffb

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Re: Mottram in Longendale - Hodge Hall [Hole?]
« Reply #26 on: Friday 20 February 15 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi Olive,
I'm not sure that I mentioned the Bowers family - I think that was prbibby. My first family connection to Broadbottom was via Edward Moss, again mentioned by prbibby. Edward Moss was born in Mossley in 1756 and, as prbibby says, he was the son of Arthur Moss and Martha Hardy, both Mossley people.
In or around 1784/5 Edward Moss, a joiner at the time, accompanied his Uncle, Edward Hardy, up to Cark (near Cartmel in the South Lakes) where they worked in a mill (Edward Hardy was a partner in the mill along with Joseph Ryder and Joseph Thakerey of Manchester, Thomas Slatterthwaite and James Stockdale). In 1785 Edward married Margaret Harrison at Cartmel Priory.
By 1796 Edward had moved to Broadbottom (not sure of the exact date, where he worked in the mill, but in the meantime he went into partnership with 2 others to build his own mill at Broadbottom (Check my post of 7/3 2011). The first time I am aware of him living in Hodge Hall was in 1799 as he was paying land tax for the Hall. I am not aware of any history of the hall prior to that.
Edward's wife, Margaret, died in 1807 and he subsequently re-married to Betty Sidebottom who was much younger than Edward. Edward had 9 children with his first wife and a further 4 with his second wife.
Edward's mill business was not a great success and eventually lead him close to bankruptcy. He made many attempts to sell the mill, but to no avail. In 1834 he committed suicide in The Angel In in Mottram. Soon after Edward's death many of his family left Broadbottom with my ancestors moving back to Mossley, where my family history continues.