Marriage Record for Bermondsey

[jemwinder]

Hi I have a birth certificate of Frederick Winder in 1845 and it states the father as Robert Winder and Mother Elizabeth Nichols

In the 1851, 71, 81 census it shows her as being born Bermondsey
1819

Ive looked on theIGI family search and found
ELIZABETH HILL NICHOLS Pedigree   Birth:  14 AUG 1819   
 Christening:  29 AUG 1819   Saint John Horseleydowns, Bermondsey, London,
 Parents:
  Father:  WILLIAM NICHOLS  Family
  Mother:  ANN     
Source Information:  P015521  1803 - 1853 

I think this may be my connection but need to find her marriage to my Robert Winder and if it shows her father as William then i would be pretty happy to prove the link

I cant find any marriage of Elizabeth Nichols  does any one have any ideas or abilty to look at other parish records in the area?

regards

Jeremy

[lizdb]

1851
HO107 1515 382 32
St Sepulchre

Robert WInder 37 something butcher bn Kent Chatham
Elizabeth 32 bn Bermonsey
Robert 13 bn Southwark
Edwin 9 bn St Sepulchre
Frederick 6 bn St Sep.
Elizabeth 4 bn St. Sep

this suggests they may have started married life in Southwark.

The christening you have found certainly looks like her.
But unless the marriage is after 1837 (and age of Robert jnr makes this less likely) there will not be a marriage cert - just Parish register which wont give fathers' names.

[Valda]

Hi

Saint Saviour Southwark 10th June 1838 born 13th February
Robert Winder parents Robert and Elizabeth, 13 New Park Street, father's occupation butcher

St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 4th September 1839
Mary Ann Winder parents Robert and Elizth Dorcas, Jamaica Level, father's occupation butcher

The addition of Dorcas may be just an error in the baptism register


St John Horselydown 29th August 1819 born 14th August
Elizabeth Hill Nichols parents William and Ann, Marine Crescent, father's occupation carpenter


Regards

Valda

[jemwinder]

Dear Valda,

Blimey thank you so very much,

So the info you have on Robert Winder in my Tree only thats a perfect match

I dont however have a Mary ann Winder (so may be she dies before 1841 census?)

Elizabeth Hill Nichols :- I did not see the father occupation on IGI, how did you find this out about her father being a carpenter? and there address

On my tree software it asks for a source for the info, what info shall i enter?

So if Robert was bap in Saint Saviour do they have marriage records there of Robert and Elizabeth getting married?

Thanks very much for the help with this, Ive been stuck on this part for about 7 years

So at least now i can start moving back on the Nichols side!! ;-)

Best Regards

Jeremy

[Valda]

Hi

I looked at the pages of the baptism registers for St John Horsleydown, St Saviour Southwark and St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey.

If I had found any information for a marriage of a Robert Winder to a Elizabeth Nichols I would have given it.

The baptism of Mary Ann which gives her mother's names as Elizabeth Dorcas, if correct, would call into question the baptism of Elizabeth Hills Nichols as the correct person.


Regards

Valda

[jemwinder]

Hi Valda,

I have just had another look at the 1841 census and found Robert Winder (born about 1813) age 30 on the census but the did used to round the ages to the nearest 5.

Living in Red Lion alley but alone!!! no children or wife,

in 1851 he is listed in 9 red lion Alley but with Elizabeth Winder and there son Robert born 1838 Bermondsey.

So There may well have been a mary upto 1851 so i am looking to find Elizabeth and the children and wonder why they were not living with Robert in Red Lion alley,  cant see why i missed that before!!

There is a death of a Mary Winder in 1845 Lambeth!!

jeremy

[Valda]

Hi

Missing one night - census night, doesn't indicate people were not living together, they just were not together on that one night - irritating but not necessarily in anyway significant.


The Mary Winder who died in Lambeth in 1845 was 85. By 1851 Mary Ann if she survived childhood would be old enough to be working away from home.


Regards

Valda

[PAM56]

Hi Jem

I too am researching the Winder family in London. I have a John Winder Butcher who states he was born in Dulwich but no bptsm found. He married Alice Cook in Strand and stated his father was John Winder Chair Stuffer.

I was told that Winder is a corrupted German name and that a speciality of Germany was their wonderful pork sausages!

I wonder if there is any connection between us. If you want a copy of family tree let me know

Pam

[Valda]

Hi

A Dictionary of British Surnames by P H Reaney (one of the classics for the origins of names) says of Winder - 'A derivative of Old English  windan 'to wind' probably a winder of wool', so a surname derived from an occupation.

Regards

Valda