PATTERSON Scotland to South Australia

[dasinaus]

Hi Michelle

Regardless of connection, it is nice to finally find someone who is interested in the descendents of John Ross (ie Simpson and/or Patterson families).  Sounds like you have gone a bit further than me in many areas, but still happy to share information.  Even better is to have someone to bounce ideas off of.

I certainly would love a scanned copy of the family history book.  I used to live in Alice Springs, but a number of years ago moved to Mount Gambier.  This makes it hard to get to many of the country centres where our forebears lived.

Do you have an actual certificate for Archibald and Isabella's marriage?  I have a copy of the entry from the parish register in Scotland - that is how I discovered John Ross was Isabella's (and Jane's) father.  If they are different, I am happy to send you a copy of what I have.

I have visited the grave of John and Margaret Anderson.  My folks live near Murray Bridge, so it's not that far away.  In fact, I went for a drive with my mother just this morning, and passed the northern end of PATTERSON ROAD at Monarto, named after Sandy's eldest son - George (but I digress)

It has been interesting tracking down early records for these families.  Both Margaret and Emily Montgomery (Archibald's two younger daughters) were born prior in 1842 when civil registration began.  A birthday book that we once borrowed gives Margaret's birthday as 24th August (although elsewhere I have 24th April ??)  Based on her age at death, I worked out that she was born in 1840 (this may be out by one year).  I wonder where she was born?

Likewise I don't have a definitive place of birth for Emily Montgomery, although if we could place that, it may help to work out when the families moved up to Mt Barker.  An obscure IGI record has a Robert Anderson being born to Thomas Anderson and Agnes Gourlay at Reed Beds in 1842.

Although Robert later lived at Cookes Plains alongside John and Thomas (jnr), I have not found any record that actually links him to my family.  [My understanding is that Reed Beds is a name given to an area along the Torrens in the Brompton (/ Thebarton) area].  Thomas Anderson later moved to Macclesfield, although I am not sure that this was at the same time as the Simpsons / Pattersons.

I have just rediscovered some old title deeds, and other records I have which may shed a little more light.  More to follow...


Darren

[joanofacre]

Hi Darren

Thank you for your email !  I will send you a direct message with my contact details so I can forward copy of Family History Book & scan of Archies & Isabell's marriage entry.

I also send you a bit of a summary of what I have found out and a brief sketch  of the linked family tree.

Recently my partner had a work accident and although he is very well now he had to spend some time down at Royal Adelaide Hospital.....anyway we got to spend sometime in State library and I found references in Colonial Residents microfiche as follows...............

1845 to 1848 patterson & simpson cultivator Devonbank Mt Barker District

Devonbank is the name of a Villa at Dollarfields - where Sandy, Jane & Chrisitan where living in a 1835 Dollar muster.

Woodcot is the name of a mansion in Dollar

and Greenside is the name of a house in Tullibody...


We recently where also up Patterson Rd in Monarto collection peastraw bales for the garden....one of the Patterson farms Banner Rest is the first on the Left after the cross rd & where it goes to gravel
a relation of people who settled the area at the sametime told us that the old house had been pulled down and a new white[ish] one was built in its place.

Hugh Ross one of the children who stayed behind in scotland married a girl called "Emily Montgomery" who's mother was an Anderson ..although that was a very popular name. 

I have a gap for Simpsons who were not listed at Thebarton in 1841C as Anderson & Patterson's were however I do have following information on Simpson Children.........

Christian b 1837 Scotland married John Dingle Coad buried @ Robe,SA
Margaret b 1839 Tullbody, Clack  married John Anderson buried @ Nairne
Emily Montgomery b 1842 Greenside SA m John Hill

The children of Thomas & Agnes Anderson are hard to work out because they renamed children born here after children who died at sea. They were married 26 Nov 1831 in Carnbee,Fife  Thomas died 18/9/1882 Bugle Ranges, Agnes died 22/1 1885 Bugle Ranges. Son John b 1835, son Thomas b 1836 in Kettle,Fife [he died at sea] and they had another son Thomas b 1841 who died 1925 Echunga ...I havent finished listing all their children yet sorry.........

I did find a ref to a Elizabeth Anderson m to a Searle living at Reedbeds at that time...I will see if I can dig this up....

Regards Michelle

[dasinaus]

Hi Michelle

Thanks for the interesting post re the names of some of the places.  I had come across Woodcott a number of times, and when perusing my old records saw I had a record of Devonbank.  Greenside is especially interesting.  Have you been able to work out the actual connection between the Greenside in Tullibody and the one here ?

I have gone back throu gh my research and dug up the following records from various Post Office Directories.  While I am aware, that they contain many errors, people being recorded in a place from which they have long since left, their first record in a place or presence in an obscure place is alway interesting.

1846  Murray's Country Directory -  District of Mt Barker
   Anderson, T.,  Rosebank
   Pattison and Subson,  Devonbank

1847 Stephens' Town and Country Directory
  Anderson, Thomas, farmer,  Davenport's Survey
  Paterson, Alex., farmer,  near Mount Barker
  Simpson, Archibald, householder, Hindmarsh

1847 Murray's Country Directory
  Paterson, Alexander, brewer,  Kensington
  Pattisson, Alexander,  Mount Barker
  Simpson, A.,  Mt. Barker

1848 Stephens' Country Directory
  Anderson, Thomas,  Meadows
  Paterson, Alex.,  Mount Barker

1848 Murray's Country Directory
  Anderson, Thos.,  Meadows
  Paterson, Alexander,  Mount Barker
  Simpson, A.,  Hindmarsh  (this record is dittoed down from the record above)

1849 Stephens' Directory
  Anderson, Thomas, farmer,  Bugle Ranges
  Patterson (sic), A, farmer,  near Mount Gambier

1849 Allen's Country Directory
  Anderson, T.,  Meadows
  Paterson, Alexander,  near Mount Barker
  Simpson, A.,  Hindmarsh  (this record is dittoed down from the record above)

1850 Murray's Country Directory
  Anderson, Thomas,  Macclesfield
  Paterson, Alex,  near Mount Barker
  Simpson, A.,  Hindmarsh
  Simpson, A.,  Mount Barker

Of particular interest, is the repeated record of Archibald SIMPSON at Hindmarsh.  I wonder if this is a reference to his residence in "Light's Village", or whether he moved somewhere nearby, before moving up to the Hills.

Also of interest (to me at least) is the mention of the Rosebank and Davenports Survey in relation to Thomas ANDERSON

I was also intreagued by the 1846 record which list them as Pattison and Subson.  I wonder if they had particularly strong Scottish accents ?

I had a quick check of BDM's and see that the Alex. PATTERSON record at Kensington is actually another family, but left it in there for completeness.


Darren

[joanofacre]

I have a historical buildings paper on Woodcot [Eden Park as it is now known] I haven't been able to locate Greenside,SA where one of the Simpson girls was born ...I have found others born there including another Patterson...it will be a trip to titles office to track it down I think but is definitely in Wistow Strath Maccy Meadows area very likely an early homestead area.  The reference to Archibald in Hindmarsh I took as being the area just discussed as it is county of Hindmarsh which takes in the hundreds of Strathalbyn, Koondaparinga,Angus,& macclesfield. I have a list of properties owned by Sandy with section & hundred details so when I get time to go to titles archive office I may find out a bit more......he actually held the property he bought from Col Light from 1839 to 1873 ...a year before he died.

When we were at State Library I was looking at microfiche  and had a laugh at the entry Pattison & Subson .....the lady sitting next to me explained that many of the early records often suffered because of accents & litracy....you may have had a yorkshire man taking information from a Scot and also the litracy skills of either or both resident and collector may not have been very good so things got written down phonetically . [She was Maureen Leadbeater...who with her husband has contributed a fantastic amount of information to Family history SA]

The enquiry's I made in Scotland found that all the Ross children attended Dollar Academy with Hugh Ross studying Latin Geometry among other subjects....A friend of the family who eventually set up Church at monarto with George was Rev Alexander Law and have found a reference of him having a school for boys at Hahndorf at one point.....otherwise the children (early Patterson Anderson & Simpson's)would most likely have been taught by their Mothers.

I believe that Archy and Sandy stuck together pretty well from early 1845 to the recorded deaths of Archy and Isabell at Woodcot in the 1860's.

I have sent you a private message with my email address so bounce me an email back and i will send you what I have.

Regards Michelle

PS was your ref to A patterson in Stephens Directory ...farmer "Mount Gambier" a typo?

[dasinaus]

Hi Michelle

Sounds like you have done a lot more research than me, especially when it comes to the history of the places our forefathers lived (and the origin of their names).  It is great to see.

I do have a couple of Land Title Memorial records which will be of interest to you:

15 June 1848 Archibald SIMPSON sold allotment 235, section 1 in Light's Village for 10 pounds.  His details are given as "... of Mount Barker Farmer formerly of Lights Village near Adelaide".  I do not have a record for him purchasing this property, but note that it is the neighbouring parcel to Alexander (so am a bit surprised they don't come up in the 1840 census)

8 April 1856 Archibald SIMPSON purchased section 2644, Angas Survey, County of Hindmarsh for 240 pounds.  His details are given as "... of [Strathalbyn] Farmer".  Two days later he mortgaged the same property to Stephen Rodda.  About a year later, he sold the said parcel to Stephen Rodda.

28 July 1849 Thomas ANDERSON was granted section 2833, Hundred of Macclesfield.  His details are given as "... Macclesfield Farmer".

They seem a bit incomplete, so I may have to go back and look to see whether there are any other records.  Not sure this tells us anything new about the families during the early 1840's, but adds a little more light to the puzzle, particularly that Thomas ANDERSON did not remain close neighbours with SIMPSONS/PATTERSONS


And yes, Mount Gambier was a typo error in my previous posting.  Living in Mount Gambier, I occasionally say one when I mean the other.  Seems I am not the only one to confuse them - I once received a misdirected letter which said Mount Gambier, but had the Mount Barker postcode.  So much for making sure you have the right postcode on a letter !

Have sent an e direct to your email address, with a bit more information

Darren

[joanofacre]

Hi Darren

Thanks for those last details. sect 2644 is on boundry of old hundred of kondaparinga and hundred of angus in county of hindmarsh and now has sandegrove rd [main strath goolwa rd running through it and has allendale rd running across nth east boundry.

Sect 2833 of maccelsfield would be further up strath wistow rd [old morningstar rd] and tkes in bugle ranges only a few klm's from Woodcot...maybe they all reshuffled up towards mt barker direction. George Patterson had a property on east of strath wistow rd near Gemmell which was sect 2814 of macclesfield & strathalbyn.

Hundreds of Maccelsfield Strathalbyn Koodaparinga and Angus all connect at the Strathalbyn township boundry's however county of hindmarsh was est in 1841  the hundreds came later.

Just found ref to Stephen Rodda [pg 53 olds strathalbyn & its people nancy gemmell Pub national Trust] described in Reminesences by an resident Maggie [Bell] Richardson  ...Stephen Rodda had his house in Alfred Place, although his Blacksmith shop was in High Street.....

As Alexander kept his Light Village property for 34 years [sold it in 1873] they most likely leased them out .....I believe Archibald was up here as early as Emily Montgomery's birth at Greenside in 1842...just a thought but maybe as George [son of sandy & jane] had children also born Greenside maybe it is property near Gemmell which I mentioned above ....?

Just did goggle and found this...
REAL PROPERTY ACT NOTICES.
WHEREAS tho persons named and described at foot hereof have each respectively for himselt made and subscribed declaration before the Registrar-General, setting forth that he is seised of an estate in fee simple in the lands set forth and described before his name at foot hereof, and hath made application to have the said lands brought under the operation of Act of Parliament No. 15 of 1857-8, intituled "The Real Property Act:" Notice is hereby given, that, unless caveat be lodged with me by some person having estate or interest in the said lands, or any of them, or by some person duly authorized on behalf of a person having estate or interest therein, on or before the expiration of the period herein below for each case described and specified, I will pro- ceed as by law directed, to bring the said pieces of land under the operation of the said Act :
HUNDRED MACCLESFIELD-Sections 2833 and
2898 ; Frederick Natt ; Residence, Mount Barker.....

HUNDRED KUITPO-Sections 3406 and 3407 (as
intending purchaser from Alexander Anderson) ; Edward Barnes ; Residence, The Meadows.....

1860.
Dated this thirtieth day of October, one thousand eight hundred and sixty, at the Registry Office, Adelaide, South Australia.
R. R. TORRENS, Registrar-General.

regards Michelle

[kerrycue]

Hello Michelle,
I have just started researching my partner's family and noted that you have been heavily involved in the same research.  Alexander Patterson is his ggg grandfather and Jane Ross is his ggg grandmother.  I have started his tree on ancestry.com and although I have started with a skeleton tree I wanted to ensure all information is correct before moving on.  HOWEVER, I came across your rootschat page and I was amazed at the amount of research you have done.  I know it was in 2009, so have you managed to get any further information regarding the Pattersons in Scotland?  I have been researching my own family history for 30 years (before Google, unfortunately.....)so I know the effort that goes into finding one tiny detail that can make all the difference!  Anyway, hope you are still online and at the same email address (we all have to change at some stage), and would love to hear from you.  I hope you don't mind if I pinch a few details from your previous blog.
Warm Regards,
Kerry Cue

[joanofacre]

Hi Kerrycue,

Good to hear from you!
I am close to the area which the Patterson,Ross, Simpson etc settled which helps with the south australian research...although the scottish side is not as easy.
I am happy to share information.... just check for accuracy yourself, I have been studying this year so I do not have as much time as before to give to this and have brickwalled re Sandys parents as no firm birth date.
I do have a bit more detail regarding their lives in SA and Sandys involvment with the church and sale of properties, form online newspapers.
I have also followed the next few generations in sa in more detail also and most recently found a grandson of Hugh Ross [the son/brother who stayed in scotland] also came out to s.a. Let me know where your partner is in the family and if you are also in sa? Looking forward to hearing from you.

Michelle

[pollypatto]

Hi,
I am amazed the research you have done so far it must have been extremely time consuming and difficult. I don't know if I can help but  I think Alexander is the George Patterson buried in Monarto Cemetery's grandfather . I don't know Alexander's birthdate all I know is he died 8th of December 1874. George senior, Alexander's son was one of the founding fathers of the Methodist Church in Monarto. His sons John and Duncan are also buried there.The Farm "Banner Rest" was Harold George Patterson's ( George jnr's son) and was later passed on to his son Stanley George. It was requisitioned by the S.A. government for the development of Monarto as a satellite city in the seventies when this failed I believe it was purchased by another family. At some point during the 1980's there was a Patterson family reunion in Murray Bridge for which a booklet was produced outlining our family history back to Scotland. Unfortunately I do not have a copy but my father may have one or access to one I will try and find out for you. Happy New Year from a distant relative.