Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana

[davclem]

The 1818 Muster of Free Women Hobart Town 1818 lists 16 Catharines.  The maiden name of 5 of them is given, and the Spouse name is stated for 8 of them. The 5  with no stated spouse and with no given maiden name are:

Brown- she is not listed as such in the  1822 Muster of Women
Crahan- still listed in 1822-born in colony
McGwire- not listed as such in 1822
Murphy- still listed in 1822- free by servitude- arrived  1791 per ‘Active’
O’Brien- still listed 1822-tried 1812 Armagh-arrived 1814per Catherine-free by servitude

Brown and Mc Guire could have married, died or vanished, but why should either of them have adopted the name Mcnally?  Crahan, Murphy and O’Brien are still known as such in 1822. So a free woman Catharine Mcnally is not listed or known as such in Hobart in 1818, but in late 1820 a woman known as Catharine McNally registered a birth of Thomas Mcnally.

 Ergo- 1818 records are not complete,or Catharine McNally did not live in Hobart in 1818, or she was not a free woman, or she arrived in Hobart between 1819-1820.

Just thought I would share that with you all!

David

[majm]

Hi there,

Errrrrrr.........

..............  but in late 1820 a woman known as Catharine McNally registered a birth of Thomas Mcnally..........

Just a cautionary thought !  Surely David, you are referring to a baptismal record rather than a birth registration.... 

a) Does that baptismal record state that Thomas was born in Hobart Town .....
b) Was that baptismal record in fact a submitted record to the Tasmanian Archives
c) What was the name of the officiating minister, and has his movements in VDL been traced ... ie was he in other districts in VDL in late 1820
d) If the baptismal record is based on Parish Records, what are the details for the baptisms immediately before and immediately after the one for Thomas....
e) Does the record show that the baptism occured in 1820, ie was Thomas born in 1820 but his baptism occurred in perhaps 1829 (easy to misread the "zero" when it could be a "nine",)  ie was the baptism for Thomas conducted in December 1829, just before his mum was married to Fred....   

Perhaps those answers may help in determining where was Catharine Christina McNally in 1820....  but I'm not yet convinced that she was in Hobart Town in 1820 at all.... 

Cheers,  JM

[davclem]

JM,

Wiggy's Post 256 says " his mother is definitely Catharine McNally - I have the birth registration from the records.  Born November 1820, baptised Dec. 1820."

David

[majm]

Hi David,

Please, do you know what records are available for birth registrations for the year 1820 in VDL. 

Also, do you hold a copy of Thomas' Baptismal record .... 

It's not my intention to be so pedantic, but there's 26 pages on the first thread, and now 22 pages on this thread, and we seem to be going round and round in circles, possibly because we are trying to prove that Catharine and Thomas and Ann were in Hobart in Nov and Dec 1820.   It occurs to me that those three may well have arrived at Mr Ransom's LATER than 1820, later even than the General Muster for 1822... 

Has anyone checked on that clue back on the old thread where I noted that a Constable AMOS had a police diary and was involved in taking details for the 1823 muster ....

I'm not convinced that the expression "many years" (used in 1825) would indicate 1820 or earlier ....  "many" may well have had a similar meaning to "several"...

48 pages of seeking info about Catharine Christina McNally,  .... and no positive sightings before the birth of her son, Thomas, so I would have expected that this  baptismal record to be a central pivotal document that had been scrutinised and authenticated and checked and checked and checked ... every aspect of that baptismal document ..

Cheers,

JM

[majm]

Umm,

Earlier on this thread there's mention of the possible link to MORRISON and a 1793 birth in NSW.

Has anyone obtained the baptismal records for the following lass whose mother's first name seems to be Christiane or Christine: 

MORRISON, Kate, daughter of Archibald and Christiane (or Archabald and Christine)
The NSW BDM online index has TWO references, V1793270 1A/1793 and V179362 148/1793 ;   

I would recommend checking out both those references, as one would most likely be regimental records, while the other would seem to be Parish records...   And of course, both entries should be available on film at the NSW State Library,  but copies of the transcripts of the NSW BDM entries can be obtained from NSW transcript agents and sent by email .... for around $30 or less.

Cheers,  JM

[regross]

this is when I regret not living in a capitol city!

Robyn

[majm]

Hi Robyn,

Yep, so I wish I could get to Sydney and to the Library ....  I've even spotted a NSW baptism of a Catherine Morrison daughter of Archibald and Christiana ... V1801992 1A/1801 and she's probably same lass as Cathrine V1801694 4/1801

To me, this MORRISON family would be as likely a family for Catharine Christina McNally as any of the others mentioned on the two threads so far...  And, afterall the thread is about searching for her origins 

I'll see if I can spot Archie or his children (I think there's 4 girls) on any of the indexes of some NSW musters.

But err... nothing beats inspecting the original (or copies of) records ...

Cheers,

JM 

[majm]

Umm,

NSW 1822 General Muster has  (of course, there's no way to tell from that muster if this could be daughter of Archie ... ie no way to tell if this is for a possible sister for Nally M' CC) but ....

Mary MORRISON, bc (born in the Colony) and of course nothing recorded for this lass under the heading "age"

BUT it notes "Wife of ..."  hard to read, but could be:

 "Wife of J CONDON"

its the first letter of his surname that's hard to read ... could be " L, " I don't think its G (no flourish below) etc ...  The page seems to be bound hard, I think it says that Condon was in Sydney,  Err... and of course, as an aside, this is also another example of females retaining their birth family name in those times  under the penal rules for NSW (Including in 1822 VDL) ....

Cheers,

JM

[davclem]

JM,

I'll leave that one to Wiggy to answer when she resurfaces

Your questioning is quite valid-discrete  facts,  circumstantial evidence and negative evidence have been combined , and  assumptions  made that there is a connection between "wife", "McNally" and "Mrs Ransom". I have accepted and advanced that assumption, because , in the light of the subsequent evidence from 1823-1830, it appears to be an assumption with a reasonable level of probability.

However, you are correct- it needs to be proved/disproved by examination of facts and possible explanations eg the 1819 Land and Stock Muster for Van Diemens Land ( October )states Thomas Ransom , a wife and a Government Servant are on the Stores(Victualled) with Thomas holding a 400 acres land grant at Hobart. Was this a clerical  error- he had no wife  ?- did he have a wife who subsequently died/moved out/ left before CCM came on the scene? When did he acquire said wife?

The 1818 Free women on General Muster Hobart Town 1818 lists 328 free women ( not including Catharine McNallY), of which 206 were married. To become Mrs Ransom by October 1819 , we are left with 122   who were unmarried in 1818, plus  any married women ln 1818 who were widowed during 1819, plus any blow ins to Hobart during 1819.

Some of the 122 can be elimnated by reference to the 1822 Muster- if they are still in the 1822 muster , then they couldn't have become Mrs Ransom in 1819- so we look only for those who are in the 1818 list but not the 1822 list (so excluding people such as Lucy Margaret Davey who was in the 1818 list and also the 1822 list and was the Lieut  Govenors daughter). There were 45 women listed in 1818, but not in 1822- they must have died, married,moved away, or did not turn up.

Need to stop now, but would be interested in your response

David