Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana

[Wiggy]

Robyn,

I've got the distinct impression that there was more than one John McNally - there was John brother of James, both of whom were a convicts - and that John is the one with Mr Cummings - (per Boddington)  Then there is John the sealer, I think that's the one I've just been looking at  - John Macanally who was leaving in 1811 (which would fit nicely with the John born that year) on the Perseverance (with Catherine Rook - remember her?  )  Isn't that how the birth notice in Sydney was spelt?  -   Can't remember this minute.   He was on another ship earlier with William Rooke! Remember?!

 I reckon the father of John in Sydney may well have been the other John - not the one going south with the Cummings, but one going sealing.   That's just my feeling!  Also in hunting round Tasmania, there seems to be more than one John McNally in Tassie!  One in Launceston and one in the south, for starters.

So yes I accept your reservations - but . . .  don't let that spoil a good theory!

Just been trailing round the Sydney papers and what I have found it that there was a letter for Thomas waiting for him in 1814 in Sydney and he was giving notice of his intention to leave for the south west in May 1814! Leaving at the same  as Thomas was a woman named Hannah - no Catharines!  Worth the look!

Wiggy

[regross]

Wiggy,

did you note that Archibald Morrison's wife'same was given as CHristiana in one of the birth entries the one for Margaret

V1798516 4/1798

Wow

need to re read re Overend/McNalty to remind me why we ruled this lass out.

I know 1814 again

Bryan Overhand was dismissed as Captain of Lady Nelson in 1814 for helping convicts to abscond and signed on the Emu which sank in 1815 in Cape Town.

from avclem july 2009 post number 45

and then this to rule her out again from davclem  post 99 in July 2009.

The current thinking is that the Catherine McNally associated with Thomas Ransom in VDL from 1820 onwards is not the Catherine McNally who married Bryan Overhand in Sydney in 1810,  (NSW BMD), because the  NSW 1828 Census  shows Catherine Overand 40 ish (per Sydney Cove 1807) in Sydney.

So I won't go there
Robyn

[Wiggy]

Good!!     Dont!!

Wiggy     

[regross]

It's getting hard to keep everything in mind

Posted the references do othrs can refereh without re reading both threads.

All said, 184 seems to be the critical year we need to focus on.

Probably need to work out a time line of persons and events for that year.

What do you think of "M'Niele" as a variation for McNAlly? here:
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/628877?searchTerm=  person leaving the colony  19 March 1814

Robyn

[Wiggy]

We-ell - to be honest, not alot!   Mostly because it is J McNeile  - I mean it 'sounds' similar doesn't it, but . . .
are you are suggesting John might be off somewhere -   Hmmmm - thinking!

It is a good idea to work out a time line - but we have Thomas going off sometime after May, and Catharine out of view (as usual) - so who else do we have to put in the frame.   Let's face it - Catharine seems to spend her whole life pretty well out of view!   By the way, in all the considerable research I've done in the last few months, it seems she went by the name of Christina - only seems to be Catharine for formal things like registering birth of T2, and in T1's will.  Interesting!   She even gave witness statement (in the court case last thread) as Christina.

Wiggy

[regross]

Wiggy,

That is a great fnd in reveiwing your material.

That is interesting as we have never really looked at person named Christina in depth.

Will have a long think and start exploring.

Robyn

[majm]

Hi there,

Re: Catharine Christina's maiden name and Thomas Ransom's Oct 1824 letter to Gov Arthur " . . .I further beg leave to state to your Honour, that the obstacle which has been the occasion of the licences being suspended has existed nearly 11 years and in consequence of it being  out of my power to remedy I have employed workmen and am preparing . . ."

1. It was not within Thomas' power to remedy.
2. Thomas died Feb 1829, with Catharine Christina as the beneficiary.
3. Catharine married Von S in Jan 1830, ie less than twelve months after Thomas' death .....

Was it Thomas Ransom who encumbered himself in about 1814 ... (read Wiggy's transcript of his Oct 1824 letter)...   Apart from a marriage, what other actions could encumber a person IN THOSE TIMES?  I'm not sure, but perhaps the answer could be found if we had copies of the licencing rules/regulations etc for obtaining a licence to operate a public house in VDL in 1824 and comparied with any variations to earlier regulations (ie what regulations operated in VDL in say 1814, 1820, and 1824 and etc). 

Perhaps the encumberance was simply that Gov Arthur would NOT approve licences to former convicts, even those holding a full pardons (ie both licences to operate a public house, .... licence to marry, etc) ... Don't overlook that Thomas was not just a former convict, but that in VDL he had been appointed a fairly senior Government Building Supervisor etc.  during the time that Gov Macquarie was the "enlightened" Gov of NSW INCLUDING VDL....

Is/are Thomas/Catharine ever  mentioned in the Bigges reports?

I think it is entirely possible that MCNALLY was her birth name, and remind you all that HER cattle were branded C N (not C R, not C M, but C N).

Cheers,

JM

[Wiggy]

Hi JM,

Re cattle brands - there is another stray cow in the same ad which is branded T R also Mrs Ransom's - so maybe she bought the C N cow from someone else - or maybe someone else had already used the brand C M  so she had to choose another - like when you are making an email address and someone else has your preferred name!!!

I think Thomas had the impediment - but I am more inclined to think he was honouring his marriage in England. However Christina could have been married in Sydney and her husband could have died at about the same time as Thomas - i.e. John the sealer!     Maybe??!

Not sure I agree re the licences - he'd already held licences for years - just that Gov. Arthur didn't want people 'living in sin' to hold licences!!  That's how I read the long epistle, signed "A Colonist", in the Hobart paper on 3rd June 1825.  Not only that but he then was granted licence to trade at Green Ponds - still without marrying Christina.

Will have to search out Bigges Reports!

Wiggy    Gotta go!

[regross]

I agree Wiggy,

Plenty of ex con's ran pubs across NSW so Ransom was not unique in this.

Still thinking    but the impediment must have
1: had the power of law behind it 
2: be known to those in official postitions and prying eyes etc never stated in a public document/press etc WHY?
3. began in 1814 so not his earlier marriage in England UNLESS his wife arrived in Australia interesting thought 

Robyn