Author Topic: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana  (Read 68153 times)

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #288 on: Tuesday 19 January 10 00:26 GMT (UK) »
Wiggy,

WOW

A date to really focus on at last :o

This really narrows things down a lot and the team may get stuck in again.

Still lost for words :o

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #289 on: Sunday 24 January 10 11:27 GMT (UK) »
Yep,  Robyn's not the only one LOST FOR WORDS  ;D  ;D  ;D

Moi lost for words too....  Wiggy, seems to me this could be the bestest clue yet!  Can you give a date for arival of Thomas to VDL? ... ie month, not just year please....  I know its been mentioned before (either on the old thread or this one, but there's over 40 RChat pages to read over again)....   I will try to make spare time to help again  ;)
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Offline Wiggy

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #290 on: Sunday 24 January 10 20:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi 'Girls',

Well, I think they left Norfolk Island in Feb/March, took a couple of months break in Sydney and arrived in VDL about May/June 1814.   This is from memory but about right.   Came all the way per 'Kangaroo' with Captain Jeffreys (Jeffries).   I'll have to go back and look myself.

Don't burst your boilers on this - it has all been researched so many times - but I can't get over the fact that I didn't take in this vital bit of info earlier!!   Funny how things slip through isn't it.   Ho Hum!!    Fascinating stuff but other life goes on!    Wouldn't it be wonderful to get to the essence of the story!!

Wiggy
Edit  - Set out in may but turned back - actually arrived in Hobart in August according to CSL
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #291 on: Sunday 24 January 10 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Just postulating,

perhaps the "obstacle" occured in that period between May and August 1814?

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany


Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #292 on: Sunday 24 January 10 23:38 GMT (UK) »
Umm,

I seem to recall finding a website with info on transcripts of NI headstones, and wondering if Catharine was perhaps a daughter of one of those who was buried at NI...... 

Also, wondering if Thomas' letter to Gov. Arthur indicates that Thomas had married someone (other than Catharine) in abt 1814....   

Errrrrrrrrr, Wiggy, re Thomas' letter of October 1824, does Thomas write "lack of marriage" or is that something added later....  and errrrrr..... does the letter show 11 or eleven.....  ie numbers or words.....   if numbers, is it definitely "11" or could it be "4" or "7" or a mark coming through the ink "bleeding" through age etc....

Is the letter available online? .... 

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Wiggy

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #293 on: Monday 25 January 10 02:06 GMT (UK) »
I haven't seen the original letter - I have only the transcript from a fellow relation's research and he has written 11 - so don't know the answer to that question JM.

What we have found is a Catharine born in Sydney to Archibald and Christiana Morrison in 1791 - or 3 - I'll have to check again.    Same relative found the reference in a book called 'Born in the English Colony of New South Wales 1788-1800.   Archie was a soldier.   Not sure if that will wash yet - but it may fit.  Archie went home in 1809 - could his daughter have stayed, married (defacto or otherwise) John McNally and had John in 1811 then left him and taken off with Thomas  when he passed through Sydney?   ???  -  (all wonderful supposition at this stage.  She doesn't appear in the musters - but then she was excellent at evading them - that is one thing we've found out as you well know.)   See back to the 6th/7th last entry re young John.

I added the  (lack of marriage) and tried to make it another colour so you'd know - but failed.    I know I know - too much supposition not enough hard evidence - where Catharine is concerned hard evidence is hard to come by - get the pun!

Cheers

Wiggy.     
 Edit to read 1793 birth in Sydney.
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #294 on: Monday 25 January 10 03:34 GMT (UK) »
Nice  theory,

I agree that if the relationship did originate in 1914, and given the good character and esteem both McNally and Ransom seem to have held within the very small confines of the Hobart town community I would like to suggest the following

(probably not proveable :-\)

Ransom travelled from NI to PJ in May 1814.  all agree?

A son was born to Catharine and John Macanalty
Quote
V1811233 5/1811 and V18112491 1A/1811 NSW BDM

Perhaps Ransom was a lodger in their household (he had to have been staying somewhere). Most homes took paying guests to supplement their meagre incomes.

We all know how domestic violence is a tragic part of modern life and I am sure it was the same in 1814.

Ransom may have been a knight in shining armour and rescued McNally from a violent relationship, perhaps even assaulting John Macanulty/McNally. Their initial realtionship may mereley have been that of victim and protector.

There may well have been only a public verbal altercation, which would be enough to set prying eyes and ears and wagging tongues on full alert. Society would have been quick to condemn and flight by both to Hobart a real escape in more ways than one.

This theory offers reasons for

    The delay between leaving NI and arriving Hobart.

    The obstacle  (the marriage to Macanalty/McNally).

    The development of the relationship between the two.

    The esteem accorded to both individuals.

    Christina's absences at musters (she would have been Manalty prior to 1814, and may have given assumed names or names of deceased females at other musters to prevent her husband finding her. (obviously  her wherebouts did not reach his ears, most likley because public sympathy was with his wife)

    Doesn't rule out Wiggy's latest suggestion in respect of her parentage. Her birth and marriage may well be in the regimental records.


Even the newspaper reports  in Hobart which were reasonably sypmathetic seem to refer to her a Mrs Ransom.

Nice little theory but no proof, unless a report can be found in court recors or newspapers of that period. :-\

Robyn


The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline Wiggy

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #295 on: Monday 25 January 10 03:59 GMT (UK) »
Robyn,        I like it!!

But, point 1,  the reason for the delay is that the Kangaroo was kept in NSW for a while and Cap't Jeffreys failed to sail in May due to the weather - it was he who brought them from NI and he was taking them on (CSL indexes)- records of his journeys seem to be fraught with delays!!   He seems to be a past 'master' at not getting there on time! - wherever 'there' is!   ;)

For the rest . . .I'll buy it  - until anything more substantial comes along!   We can find the birth of John Jnr but not marriage of Catharine and John Snr - so it may not have been 'solemnized' leaving either her or Thomas to have the 'obstacle' - but for my money, that isn't really the point at this time. 
 
 You can have 9/10 for that reasoning (at the moment!!) - The date I gave you - does make Catharine a few   years younger than she said she was - but what is a few years between friends!   may not be correct but not bad!   And when you think of how many 'Cartland' stories have been put forward on this thread, yours is no more 'way out' than others!!    Less in fact!

Wiggy   
-  full of admiration!!         I might have to change my mind if something better comes along!  ;D

Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #296 on: Monday 25 January 10 04:14 GMT (UK) »
Wiggy,

As I said nice theory.

It's hard to put together a good theory to cover what we have discovered re their characters etc. (I dare say with some creative thinking  I could add the idea that Mcanalty ended up in the asylum after the altercation  8))

However the theory overlooks the fact that John McNally and advertised tin 1816 that he and his wife were heading south
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?searchTerm=mcnally&textSearchScope=full&facet=decade:1810-1820

However perhaps  the Ransom McNally relationship began with him acting as a protector in 1814 as I theorised, but she stayed with her spouse, society being what it was, and only left him subsequently :-* when away from the prying eyes ears etc of Sydney.

Still fits but not quite as romantic.

Also found on NLA site
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/628863?searchTerm=ransom
an advert advising that there were lettewrs waitng collection for Thomas Ransom (February19. 1814) Love to know if he collected them and what was in them and if it was for your Thomas.

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany