Author Topic: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana  (Read 68272 times)

Offline rpoole

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #45 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 15:11 BST (UK) »
Hi David and all,

I have read some of War and Peace (original thread) and, HELLO, wrong David.   Mine has nothing whatsoever to do with Popes, Cement or any kind of weather, however, 6 years ago,he did supply me with identical details as those in Davclem's original posting.   ???             I live in Melbourne on that large Island off the north coast of Tassy, so do not get the Examiner delivered. Nevertheless I am happy to comment on the amalgamation if you provide me with the article.    ::)

I have had no luck re-establishing contact with my source, however I will keep my eye out for any clue to help solve the Catherine issue.      Happy hunting,
 
Aussie Bob

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 23:36 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

I like this
Quote
Catherine McNally the Methodist/Quaker born Sussex 1789 out of play- only trouble is getting either of them to Sydney!

how well it sits with the description of our Catharine JM's replies263 & 271 old thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,383665.270.html

Quote
and conducted herself in all the various relations of humble life, with credit to herself and injury to no one,

and

Quote
That letter to the editor clearly explains that the impediment to Catharine's marriage WAS WITH CATHARINE.  "because it was discovered that the faithful and valuable female, ..... was unhappily unable to enter into the legal estate of matrimony, in consequences of circumstances of long previous existence not within her own control, which she could neither alter nor recur to....

This puzzle is yet to be resolved, WHAT WAS THE IMPEDIMENT?
Was a prior husband still alive?
Was he in an asylum/prison?
Had she a legal contract of some kind ie a provision in a will that prevented her from marrying for a set period? something we have not yet considered.

There is still lots to find.

good sleuthing

Robyn

The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 02:15 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

Just to note re  two McNally crewmen, (recent posts on this thread) although "free by birth in N S Wales" - I have not found their births/christenings recorded on the NSW BDM online index... of course, it was not compulsory to register in those times... - that very lack of registration being the central "missing link" on this search of Catharine!  Also "free by birth" may suggest that one or both of their parents had a convict background...

Robyn has been considering Catharine's "impediment" - the legal contract concept is interesting and should not be overlooked  ;) well thought out Robyn ,
....and Catharine became aware of the loss of that impediment after Thomas Ransom died and before she married Von Stieglitz....  - so Catharine became aware in 1829 that she was free to marry.... so if she were the Catherine McNally, Methodist/Quaker born Sussex 1789  she was about 40, but perhaps looked much younger ....

Still looking

JM
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Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #48 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 05:02 BST (UK) »
Wiggy, JM,and all,

I am beginning to feel that Catharine was older than we believe, she had so few children or rather we are only aware of 1 possibly 2 children born in Tasmania.

If she is the quaker Catherine, it would go quite a way to explaining her seeming celebate lifestyle (even living with Ransom), her charity, her upstanding character and the lack of scandal around her at the time, for as we have discovered fingers were quick to be pointed.

Can't find anything in the UK archives, only 3 McNally wills in the time frame, to be found!! unusual.

NLA has
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2541642 on qakers in early australia and
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1615058 a list of quakers inAustralia pre 1862 in their holdings.

TAs Libray has from slightly alter photos fo prominent Quakers:
http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/Search/Search.asp?Letter=R&Subject=Religious+Society+of+Friends+(Quakers)+in+Australia

good hunting

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany


Online Wiggy

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #49 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 05:55 BST (UK) »
Interesting isn't it?   ;)

If she were the wife of John McNally of the Cummings entourage, then she had about four/five children in all - IF - -  three with John, possibly one with Thomas Amos and one with Thomas Ransom.  BUT it is all one big IF so far.  There is another McNally in the state - James - and there seem to be two more McNally children - Margaret and Patrick -  we don't know if they are John's or James'.    I haven't seen the records yet - all the more to look up when we go to Tassie to investigate.  The two later children are not Catharine's I believe - she would have been with Thomas by then I think.   But there's nothing positive yet.   It sure is an interesting jigsaw this one!

I've noted your comments  Robyn and JM - not ignoring them- just don't have anything to add one way or the other - so for once in my life I am staying silent on the matter, until I can prove or disprove something!

Cheers,

Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline davclem

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #50 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 05:55 BST (UK) »
. CATHARINE BROWN - International Genealogical Index JOHN X CHRISTIANA
Gender: Female Christening: 25 JAN 1789 Quay Meeting House-Independent, Woodbridge, Suffolk, England

Sorry ,Team, am in too much of a rush these days, so have lead you astray by not providing the correct detail in my throw away remark re Catharine the Methodist/Quaker

I searched for an IGI hit involving 1789 as a birth/christening date, Catharine wiv an "a"as the forename and a mother called Christina or Christiana, and up popped the only hit as the above. I have googled and Jeeved through Methodist Missionaries etc and history and records of the Quay Meeting House, to no avail. We would be looking for a Catharine nee Brown in Sydney  in partnership with a McNally giving birth to a John McNally in 1811, to fit the rest of our construct from 1816 on- not exactly a pillar of Methodist rectitude.

She would have come either on her own( why?) say between 1805 (age16) 1810, or with her parents. Unless her mother's maiden name was McNally ( I think I checked and it wasn't), she could only have become Catharine McNally by association or identity swapping for some reason.

A bit thin all round, but all is grist to the mill while we flail, although Brown is only marginally less challenging than Smith.

Catharine McNally mother of Thomas 1820 ,assumed to be the "wife" of Thomas Ransom in 1819 Muster,  was either a free unencumbered spirit called McNally, or belonged to someone called McNally whose name she was prepared to carry despite no continuing  association, or had stolen the name because it hid her true identity. We know nothing certain about her under this name before 1820, other than the claim she was born  c1789. All other Catharines in VDL 1811-1819 per the usual available records seem(!) to have been accounted for ( why does Catharine Belbin tinkle bells with me). She was McNally at birth of Thomas in 1820, She is McNally in Thomas' will 1829, she was McNally at marriage to FLS in 1830. What was the impediment to marriage in 1825 that didn't exist in 1830?. Is there evidence in the Archives of the snitch's advice to Governor Arthur or did he just whisper in his ear or was it such common knowlege but overlooked in such a small community because whe was generally liked and respected. Seems to me that it is the 1825 records that need to be sought and searched , if they exist- back to the newspaper reports,get  dates, and then to Archives to search for the scuttlebutt.

David


 
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline davclem

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #51 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 05:59 BST (UK) »
Sorry Bob! thought you lived down the road at Mayfield.. Yes, well that was a load of cobblers then,wasn't it. Two Davids both with the same (WRONG) story- this saga becomes more bizarre every twist and turn- welcome to Wiggy's world !

David 2
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #52 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 06:23 BST (UK) »
Hi all,
I still don't believe too much in co-incidences as you say 2 DAVES, with the same story oh how much of it from the same source or are the stories from totally different sources?

We need to know the source!!.

found a  submission for : Catherine L Brown b 1789  in the IGI who married a Patrick Doyle in Sydney 1809 and two children. http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp not in NSW Index.

regards
Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline davclem

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #53 on: Wednesday 14 October 09 06:59 BST (UK) »
I'm a bit with Wiggy on this , Robyn, it doesn't seem right that Catharine is having and leaving a trail of offspring behind from about 1808ish. One in 1811 I can cope with, who is taken by his fatherR in 1819 when the schism occurs, but not litters !.
Wiggy, I think(!) Margaret and Patrick were James Macanally offspring- don't ask me about the others- but a second John for John already with an 1811 John seems unlikey.
Waggons Roll!
David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820