Author Topic: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana  (Read 67896 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #108 on: Friday 16 October 09 03:53 BST (UK) »
Have we spotted this cutting previously,

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8644855?searchTerm=%22royal+oak%22

MARRIED-At New Norfolk, on Tuesday last, by Special License, by the Rev. H. R. Robinson, A.M., Frederick Steiglitz, Esq. to Mrs. Catherine McNally, of the Royal Oak Inn, Green Ponds.

C T of 22 Jan 1830....  Umm, notice the curtesy title for the bride  ;) but I cannot find any online indexes for the granting of the Special License  :'(  Applications for S L to Marry in that era, but in NSW, needed the Governor's approval... could be some record somewhere in VDL archives....  In NSW, in 1820's I know that S L needed if either party had been convict,  but also, S L needed if either party was widowed (even if came free or born in colony etc)....  the application for S L would have lots of genie info, and perhaps the VDL governor or his Col Sec may have recorded the application in their daily log books ???

Umm, Special Licence  ;) sometimes these were to make a hasty marriage to give a baby bundle legitimacy ... however, Catharine's marriage to Frederick does not seem to have been hastened in that way....

So, I am suggesting that Wiggy adds to the TO DO list,  "need to know what was on the  Special Licence Application for Catharine Christina McNally's marriage to Frederick ... application probably lodged Dec 1829, ceremony abt 19 Jan 1830, by Rev H R Robinson - is the genie detail on that Special Licence  recorded in his records somewhere or where is it recorded"

 JM

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Offline davclem

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #109 on: Friday 16 October 09 05:51 BST (UK) »
JM,
 re your Post 109 concerning drowning of Ann Cummings- sorry, typo in my original advice, she was of course drowned and  buried July 27 and 29 in 1820,  NOT 1825. It was the letter of Youl advising this date that was in 1825. Sorry, it was a long day at the Library and a 250km drive that day

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #110 on: Friday 16 October 09 05:56 BST (UK) »
Bit More, re reply #108 of this thread,

On the IGI extracted records, there's the marriage for Fredk. Lewis STEIGLITZ to Christina Mc NALLY on 19 Jan 1830 .... this extract would have been sourced from the Parish Records of the church at New Norfolk at which the couple were married

  it would  interesting to see a copy of the image of that registration....  

;D  ;D  ;D as I am quite sure this is the same event and same couple in the same church on the same day as noted in the newspaper ....
Frederick Steiglitz Esq v Fredk. Lewis Steiglitz
Mrs Catherine McNally v Christina Mc Nally
same date, 19 Jan 1830.... same location, New Norfolk....

Cheers,  JM

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Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #111 on: Friday 16 October 09 06:01 BST (UK) »
Hi David,

Re 1820 v 1825, Ann Cummings death..... and different months too,  there's the one drowning in SEPT 1820, mother of two... 

I still think there's two Mrs Ann Cummings in this picture ....

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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Offline davclem

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #112 on: Friday 16 October 09 06:34 BST (UK) »

Anne Ransom

Married Francis Walter Stieglitz ( Brother of F L Stieglitz) Avoca District , Tasmania, 7 May 1840, declared age 22- so born between 7 May 1818- 6 May 1819, . (Tasmanian Pioneer Index)

Died 1 October 1892 at Launceston , as Ann Vonstieglitz,,age stated as 75, so born before 1 October 1818 (TPI)

On this basis, she was born between 7May 1818- 1October 1818 which would eliminate Thomas Amos as the father, either by Ann Cummings or Catharine McNally. As the Land Muster for October 1819 shows a wife in Thomas’ household but no child , and the wife is assumed to be Catherine McNally, then the child can be presumed not to be Catherines. Knopwoods Diary refers to Amos several times during his 1819 visit, but nothing earlier in 1817-1819, and as Amos was a solicitor,and  Knopwood was a Magistrate on the bench almost daily, and daily hob nobbing with the Judge Amos would have been mentioned had he been to VDL previously- Bobby logged everybody!!

It could however still be a daughter of Ann Cummings who was asserted by husband John by Notice in HTG 25/9/1819 “ to have absented herself from me for some years past “.   On July 27 1820  she was drowned at Port Dalrymple with her 11 year old daughter and 3 year old son ,Phillip, who must have been born before 27 July 1817 in Launceston.  So if she scooted off to Hobart with post partum blues in latter part of 1817 with her companion Catherine NcNally, they were on the loose together during 1818 and the best part of 1819., at least 22 months.

Cummings Notice was in September 1819, and she drowned back in Launceston in July 1820, so she returned to Launceston. John Cummings travelled per Martha back to Port Dalrymple in early October 1819, some 2-3 weeeks before the land Muster showing a wife with Thomas Ransom. It must be assumed that both Ann and Catharine had been staying with Thomas Ransom- possibly in the neat little house he had added to the Joiners Arms in Murray Street which he later advertised for sale- Maybe he took them both on as barmaids! Ann was located ( Hobart was not very big) and  returned to John Cummings and Catherine stayed with Thomas, leaving John NcNally with 8 year old John in Launceston. Cummings would have told John Mcnally where Catherine was, hence the record of John NcNally travelling Hobart to Launceston about this time.

. If Ann  was a daughter of Ann Cummings conceived (but not by Amos)and born during the 22 month plus period in Hobart, her birth name was neither McNally nor Ransom. As she was married as Ransom and not as Stieglitz( her adopted stepfather after 1830)she was either called Ransom from the start  rather than Cummings or Boynton ,or she followed her adopted brother’s lead (Thomas 1820) and took on the name of Ransom because he was the de facto father in whose house she had grown up
.
OK,-its just a construct, but it incorporates all the known fact to date- pick holes in it and lets see if it hangs together
DAVID
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #113 on: Friday 16 October 09 06:44 BST (UK) »
Wiggy,
I assume you know about this tree:

http://www.bellsite.id.au/gdbtree/index_M.html

has Catharine Christiana Mc Nally 1790-1857. No sources and nothing that we don't already haveand have ransom born 1780???

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #114 on: Friday 16 October 09 07:11 BST (UK) »
Hi David,

I hope you understand that I am picking .... in a constructive way....  I hope so, cause I think  ;) .... on the 1819 Muster, showing a wife in Thomas' household, but no child....  etc.... just because child NOT declared to be there, ummm, really does not prove child was NOT there.... Umm, there's much ranting and raving in PJ about the accuracy of those Musters  .. - the governor and admin staff; the magistrates .... the convicts .... the free settlers who had no one working on their tasks while they were being mustered.... and those who were free by pardon/servitude etc .... every year they had to find their papers again and present them.... those precious pieces of paper cost money to replace.  As Catharine had an impediment affecting her eligibility to marry, then she certainly would not have been owning up to a baby daughter no more than several days after that birth....   

It is quite possible that Thomas and Catharine 's baby (Ann/or Thomas/or others) had been born before that 1819 muster, but NOT YET "churched", .... and for some then until a child had a name it was not yet formally a person.... thus was not declared at the Muster....

Remember the Musters REQUIRED (but not all obeyed) every person (not just convicts) to attend and provide information about themselves and their circumstances....  If Catharine was unable to attend (with her accoucher) then Thomas Ransom would have no reason to say "Wife and Child",  rather he would have said ""My wife is indisposed and "confined" with her "accoucher" OR words to that effect...

I have not got to the next sentence in that paragraph yet.....  :o   I'm trying not to be too picking.... I can think of lots of places a twelve month old child could be when a Muster was called.... Including, in her mother's arms and the collector of the info asked the question perhaps "Any children" and Catharine saying "no" thinking he meant "Any OTHER children...."  
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline regross

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #115 on: Friday 16 October 09 07:31 BST (UK) »
JM,

So a real effort to locate al original baptismal records for that year or so either side may need to be undertaken to perhaps find Ann's birth.

Strange that she is listed as Ransom on the TFl and Thomas as McNally.

Read a good rationale here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,326531.45.html page 4 posts 51 and 52. re accuracy of the records.

regards

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline majm

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Re: Searching for origins of: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #116 on: Friday 16 October 09 07:47 BST (UK) »
Umm,  also I seem to be finding that the 1818 VDL muster occurred within day or two of 1 October 1818, which at least provides reason (Catharine's poss confinement) for neither Catharine nor Ann Ransom's details to be on the 1818 muster...  And I rather like my explanation re the 1819 muster not showing Ann....  but where was Ann on the 1820 muster.... ummm, Catharine may have been say 8 1/2  months ... perhaps Ann was with Catharine minding Catharine while all the others were being mustered ....

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/658622?searchTerm=%22general+muster%22  (gives a summary of where and when the VDL Governor supervised in Oct 1824 (edit to fix me own typo !  1820, sorry !!!)

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.