Joseph Burnside, Cockerton

[Burnside]

Hello everyone
Thanks for the updates. We thought we had difficulties with the Australian Burnsides - uncertain dates of birth/ identities etc but it seems that problem is not confined to the Australian Burnsides.

We know private AB arrived in Oz in 1810. we know he died in 1827 here but DC shows age 66.

We know from AB's letter to Govt requesting land that he arrived with 73rd (and had been in 4th Royal Vet Battalion earlier). Most of regiment arrived earlier in 1810 but AB and some others followed as guards on convict ships.

I hired a  researcher to search Kew records who found the link for AB from 73rd back  to 4th RVB back to 82nd reg back  to Durham militia  - potter and age 17 in 1799. - which doesn't agree with DC.

We know he had a wife Sarah but don't know details of marriage or maiden name.
We know his daughter Elizabeth married in 1821 but don't know her age precisely.

We know his daughter Sarah (my GGG grandmother) claimed to be born in England but 1828 muster lists  her born here.

Son Benjamin seems to disappear (along with the surname Burnside) although several of AB's daughters - incl Ann keep the name Ambrose for their children etc.
We suspected that wife Sarah may have been a second wife (and not the mother of Elizabeth because there is a large gap between daughter Eliz and other children.

Janet

[Ermintrude46]

A birth in 1762 would be just about right for a first marriage in Whitby to Violet Patterson in 1783 - has anyone got access to the actual PR/BT to see whether any other info is given re parish/occupation/parentage for Ambrose?  I would lean towards my Ambrose who married Elizabeth Watson being one of the younger chaps given that they are still having children up to 1825.

Hi Janet, posts crossed in the ether.  Nice to see  Burnsides keeping up the old family traditions across the water!  Did your AB get an army pension, he's not in the National Archives on line catalogue which has indexed WO 97 for much the late 1700s/early 1800s?  Was the researcher able to ascertain when/why he left the military?
Ermy

[lanelad]

Hi, and welcome Janet,
                                     We are getting some good stuff coming in from all parts, and its looking at the moment in favour of 1762 being the father of Edward 1803.
I didnt have the death of Violet in 1799, or the birth of other Violet 1806, thanks for that.
 I have Iabella 1786 Stockton; Edward 1790 Yarm;Ambrose1791 yarm;
William 1796 Yarm. ch of Ambrose and Violet IGI batch no`s
Theres also a Richard b. 08dec1795 to Edward and Elizabeth.
Now we are also upto date with Janet, we can push on
                             Fred

[Colin Cruddace]

Hello Janet and all,

How would you feel about your AB in Oz, being the same as father of Edward born 1803?

I've been thinking of the Whitby Ambrose, and the birthplace of Edward's mother,  Elizabeth Hull which was written as Stays, which I can only presume is Staithes, a very close neighbour of Whitby.

Could AB have joined the Navy, married a widow after leaving, and she had Edward while visiting AB's relatives in Darlington before they left for a new life in Oz. Baby Edward would not be able to withstand the voyage so they left him at home, to send for him later but that never happened.

Just a thought,
Colin

[Burnside]

Hello again everyone.

In reply to Ermy, private AB was invalided from the 73rd in 1814 and then joined another veteran corps here - the Royal Vet Corps. When they were disbanded in 1824, he chose to stay here and for a short period in 1825 he served as a constable.

Hi Colin,
I don't really have any evidence either way to comment on my AB being father to Edward, although there are plenty of other cases where young children accompany their parents - convict and free - on the journey. 
We think daughter Elizabeth did, but can't find any record of her being born. She married here in 1821 and Ambrose is described as her father at the bigamy trail of Elizabeth's husband.
Janet

[lanelad]

Hi,
    I had thought of your info wayback on Eliz.Hull and agree with your thoughts on her. Could Elizabeth Hull bp  09feb1766 Whitby be her f. Thomas.
   B/T`s for Sedgefield are off the air at the moment, but i have a burial
Mary dau. of Ambrose and Violet Burnsides (strangers) 4th Apr1794. I suppose "strangers meant Hawkers or var. travellers.
Dug this up *2nd almost wiped outin Windies-rebuilt1798 from other regiments-went to Quiberon Bay france-july 1800 Minorca ubtil1802-returned to England-Ireland(cannot find notes on this but i believe Cork and Dublin were mentioned.) have had a little try at finding a marriage. A second battalion was formed in 1804 in Horsham Sussex.- 1807 to Copenhagen, and returned to Deal in Kentsame year then to Portugal 1808
I cant find anything for later   Fred

[Preshous]

Hi
The death of an Ambrose Burnside in Sedgefield in 1843 aged 80 had me thinking hard. If the age at death is right then a birth of 1763 would be interesting. Is this the Ambrose from Blackwell 1762?. I only have the one Ambrose c 1762 in my list, my thought on this is that if this is the Ambrose from Blackwell then who is the AB in OZ who's DC information suggests a birth c 1763.


Gary

[lanelad]

I would think that one year difference in the birth year would be very good. I am used to 5-10 year errors. i am satisfied that AB in Sedgefield is the same as born 1862. The DC in Oz was collated by wife Sarah, and according to Janet was a heavy drinker. (i dont know how she knows that). What is more
worrying is the difference of a man joining up gives his true age as 17y, then if he tells his wife his true age, how would she be about 15 years out on his DC. Sarah according to her DC was only 39 when he died. (27years difference.)  Although i have a Alice that married a John Brass 28 years difference (funny, she went to Oz)
                     Fred

[Preshous]

Well the OZ AB certainly seems to be odd even for a Burnside.
My theory is that the OZ AB was the son of Benjamin baptised in 1779, this is mainly based on naming patterns as the OZ AB has a son named Benjamin. I have trawlled the George Bell collection for a marriage to a Sarah nothing even close, nor is there anything likely in the IGI. I wondered if this marriage took place abroad?? or did they ever marry??.
The AB that married Elizabeth Hull is, I believe the widower of Violet Patterson. I think the PRs for the birth of Violet in Yarm 1806 may shed some light on that relationship.
And finally the AB that married Elizabeth Watson was the son of Edward baptised 1778, again based on naming patterns.
This is just a theory.

Gary