Joseph Burnside, Cockerton

[Ermintrude46]

I second Colin as the Ambrose married to Elizabeth Watson is mine.  I've leant towards 'my' Ambrose being the son of Edward Burnside and Elizabeth Bousfield due to the similarity of names in both families but any proof either way would be very welcome.
Ermy

[lanelad]

Ermitrude46
                       I can only assume you are referring to my letter25feb. Strangely, it was with Colin. that i decided on the other Ambrose b.1779, but at the time i said to you that it was very marginal and that it didnt mean that yours was wrong.
I have come to the conclusion that there was never another Ambrose married and living in Darlington area, and that Edwards son Ambrose was the one who married Elizabeth Harrison( who may have died with son in childbirth  Edward feb1803)  Argument then who was Edward d.1879Aycliffe!!!
Ambrose then went on to marry Elizabeth Watson,and had among others, Eliz1804,Jane1806 then Eliz2 in1808(who was noted as the 4th child)!((Edward1803?))
At this point i would like to clarify to anyone not invoved directly in this debate  that the original problem was that we had two Ambroses, so
Ambrose b1778 Blackwell- Potter- son of Edward
Ambrose b1779 Blackwell -Potter- son of Benjamin
one marries Elizabeth Harrison 1802 Darlington
one marries Elizabeth Watson  1803 Auckland(dosent it just get easier)!!!!
Then i became in contact with Janet, who must have thought we needed
more of a challenge and gave me this:-
It seems that an Ambrose joined the Durham Militia in April1798 (information Janet-Australia) In July1799 he`s transferred to 82nd Foot. Regiment book shows Trade Potter-from co.Durham- parish Blacknam?(unclear)Blackwell???
age17[1782]
I doubt if this is a third Ambrose, so then he would have to be one of the other two, and i have picked Ambrose1779.
Sorry! The writing pad keeps disappearing after every letter is typed. I shall  return
     Fred 

[lanelad]

Hi
   Part2. The reason  is for the same logic as Ermies "similar family names".
Carrying on, a Death cert in 1827 shows Ambrose in Oz age 66y born [1761] As Janet says "the enlistment age would have been more realible than this, as why would a 36y claim to be 17, or get away with it. His wife Sarah was supposed to be 42y in 1828
Ambrose in Oz had ch.Sarah,Ann,Benjamin,Elizabeth, John. as well as Mary and Caroline.
Note:- Janet would like to find the marriage of Ambrose to Sarah c1799-1806
any ideas? There are a lot more details, but too many to list in one go(or2 as it turned out.
                      Fred

[Ermintrude46]

Hi Fred,
Thanks for that, must admit it had not occurred to me that both Ambrose marriages were for one Ambrose, I'd just assumed that each AB had married once but your alternative does sound plausible!  Could the Edward that died in 1879 be the son of Ambrose and Elizabeth (Watson) born in 1813 (which would presumably mean that Colin was descended from this Edward, rather than Edward born 1803??)  So the AB that joined the militia ended up in Australia?  Do you know when that was and whether all the relevant records at Kew have been seen?  I've already got a little list of people I need to follow up at Kew that I could easily add AB to.  Of course, there WAS another Ambrose, baptised 1762 at Darlington and the brother of Edward (my AB's father, these two seem to have been the only males, tho' there were six sisters too), do you know what happened to him??
Ermy

[Preshous]

Hi All
I just wondered if anyone had ruled out the Ambrose who would have been a widower in 1799 from being one of the Ambrose marriages? There was an Ambrose who was married to Violet Patterson in Whitby 1783. She appears to have died in 1799 in Yarm. Interestingly there is a birth for a Violet Burnside 1806 in Yarm to Ambrose & Elizabeth? Violet and its variations seem to have made into the Burnside naming patterns after the death Violet Burnside (nee Patterson).

Gary

[lanelad]

Hi All.
 Before i could answer you Ermy, Gary has come in with the same comment on the 1783 Ambrose. Yes to you both, 1783 would have fitted in with the Oz DC.
I invited Janet to come on the thread, in her reply she says she is having trouble with the Oz Burnsides (surprise)
A quick summary of Ambrose Oz. Arrived in NSW 1810 on the "Ann" with a small detachment of the 73rd regiment guarding convicts.Died Cambelltown 1827
Note The 82nd regiment book WO225/489 f018:
I found 82nd Foot (Prince of Wales Vounteers)created 1793. Regiment sent with their C/O lieutenant colonel Lachlan Macquarie on ships Hindustan and Dromedary.
Embarked 8may 1809 arr. Port Jackson 28dec 1809 held up with bad weather, then moved on Sydney Cove 1stjan 1810.
Daughter Sarah`s obit and  DC say she was b.England -travelled to NSW same ship as Macquarie.However 1828 says she is Oz born.
The" Ann" must have been one of the detachments sent out in the next two months Newcastle,Parramatta,Dewent(Hobartown),Norfolk Island and Port Daryample. I will dig out more info . Typing pads gone wrong again
                                        Fred

[Colin Cruddace]

Wow, thing's are gathering pace aren't they.

Fred, it might help things if I give what I have on Edward who married widow Elizabeth Harrison (nee Hull). I have no information about her dying in 1803 though, so I'll try and confirm that.

His baptism on 5th March 1803, states born 9th Feb, 3rd son of Ambrose Burnside and Elizabeth Hull.

Census details, all at Aycliffe,
1841 age 35-39 born in County
1851 age 47 no birthplace entered
1861 age 60 born Bp Auckland
1871 age 69 born Darlington
Died Q3 1879 age 76 (no burial details yet)

Apart from 1861, which might be the best guess of whoever completed their schedule, all are reasonable for the 1803 birth.

Hope it helps,
Colin

[Ermintrude46]

Hi Colin, it certainly does look like your Edward is consistent in giving a birthdate of 1803 or thereabouts which would tend to rule out the "one Ambrose/two marriages to an Elizabeth" theory given that Ambrose and Elizabeth Watson also had a son called Edward, born 1813.  However, if one of the younger Ambrose's is off with the militia, perhaps your Edward could be the son of Ambrose bn. 1762 and the widowed Elizabeth Harrison??  The only slight problem with this is that I think their marriage entry at St Cuthbert's gives Elizabeth as a widow but doesn't say Ambrose was also widowed?

[Colin Cruddace]

  However, if one of the younger Ambrose's is off with the militia, perhaps your Edward could be the son of Ambrose bn. 1762 and the widowed Elizabeth Harrison??  The only slight problem with this is that I think their marriage entry at St Cuthbert's gives Elizabeth as a widow but doesn't say Ambrose was also widowed?

I like that line of thought, Ermy 

The marriage entry does not give any marital status for Ambrose, and I thought age 23/24 would be a strange age to take on a widow with a family, but if it was an older, widower Ambrose, and he had children from a previous marriage, it would make more sense of Edward being his 3rd son. I will have to check him out, unless anyone else has already done that.

Colin