Llansilin Parish Record Lookup - Wood(s)

[Gadget]

Hi Earle 

Glad you've got some leads.

I'll keep my eye open for any baptisms in the adjoining parishes. Although they might not have been baptised.



Gadget

[king otg]

Hi Earle,

I am not part of Romanygenes but the site owner kindly passed on your request for a copy of Part One of my A To Z. You are most welcome.

I do not think there is much room for making everybody right, Earle. The marriage certificates say that Elijah Wood and Godfrey/Geofrey Wood were sons of Jeremiah so that must be is true. There are cases where the father's name given at baptism differs from the one given at marriage but in this case there is no baptism to contradict the marriage details. Hearsay is not as strong as an official register entry therefore, in this respect, the Abram Wood pedigree is plain wrong until evidence to the contrary is located.

As for their baptisms, since they were not from their mother's first marriage (to William WOOD) you might find them under a different surname even though everybody is called WOOD or WOODS. The chances of them not being baptised is close to zero.

It occurred to me that Thomas WOOD who is  present with Elijah in 1861 is not on the Abram Wood pedigree and perhaps he is the same person as  Godfrey. If so, it gives an alternative place of baptism but it would mean finding an explanation for the absence of his wife and first two children.

[Earle]

Hello king otg,

Thank you for your response.
I agree with your and Gadget's (reply #7) rationale that a primary source is more valid than a pedigree compiled by several others.
Where did you find, "Thomas Wood who is present with Elijah in 1861."  I cannot find the two together.
If Jeremiah Wood is the father of Elijah & Godfrey - then which Jeremiah is it?  Jeremiah (Bach Gogerddan) had a son Jeremiah as did Thomas & Sylvaina.
I would appreciate any help you can provide.

Earle

[king otg]

Hi Earle,

I can answer the first question but will have to check my files for the second. There were, as you say, a number of Jeremiahs.

Thomas WOODS age 25 appears with Elijah  (Alija) at 1861FLN-4268/22/7 which is at Holywell. Also present is Elijah's mother and a male by the name of Harrell whom you probably know about. It is clearly a close family group even though they are referred to as 'lodgers'.

Thomas's age is precisely the age that Godfrey should be in 1861 based upon his age in 1871. He also has the same occupation as Godfrey, harpist, and  gives his birthplace as South Aberystwyth.

Regards

[Gadget]

That seems to be them 

I see Thomas is down as b. South Aberystwyth. If we could find them on the 1851, it might give us another birth check to find a baptism.

[Earle]

Hi king otg & Gadget,

Re: replies 12 & 13:
The 1861 Holywell, Flintshire census really throws me concerning the Wood(s) family.
Aliga is listed as unmarried but Elijah married Mary Roberts on 20 Aug 1860.  No relationship is given for Ellen other than she is a Widow.  Her age 56 rules her out as the Ellen (b. c1786) who had two children with Adam Wood who we earlier thought might be Godfrey & Elijah's parents according to Dr. Sampson's pedigree.  I do not know of Harrell.
I am stuck at the moment on how to determine the parents of Godfrey & Elijah.  Since their marriage certificates both state Jeremiah as the father, that seems to be the best info but which Jeremiah of several is correct?
More research!

Earle

[Gadget]

Hi Earle 

The only Jeremiah in the Llansilin area around about the time who  is showing in the parish records is this baptism:

1st October 1823 Theophilus s/o Jeremiah Woods and Anne

It's very difficult to check on baptisms, etc. when king otg is saying that their surnames might well not be Woods and their first names might not be what they later used.

I've looked for all names/families in the 1851 but nothing seems come anywhere close to any of them.

As I said, I'll check through any parish records that I have access to in the broad Llansilin area if I only know what I'm supposed to be looking for.



Gadget

[king otg]

Hi Earle,

I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject over the weekend and think that both of us got it wrong in some respects. I did ask you for the details on Elijah's marriage certificate because I anticipated your question. The precise year of Elijah's birth and his father's occupation are needed to tidy up some of the details. The father's occupation on Godfrey's marriage certificate are slightly less useful for reasons not worth going into.

Although it is only hearsay, Matthew Wood  (D37 on the ABRAM WOOD pedigree, born 1845) gave an account which, if the years are added from census and baptism records, shows that William (C12) and Ellen (C5) parted AFTER the birth of Godfrey and probably after the birth of Elijah. I would expect the baptisms, when found, to give the parents as William and Ellen.

The reasons why Sampson's records give 'Adam' are complicated and perhaps too complicated for this forum but Adam (D16) and Jeremiah (D15) were both aged about 6 at the time of Godfrey's birth. I do believe that the Ellen (C5), whose age at death makes her appear to have been born in 1786, is the SAME person as the Ellen who appears to have been born later. Judging by all her children's births she would have to have been born close 1800.

One of the reasons for the confusion is a common one on these old gipsy pedigrees. When two people having the same surname married they were sometimes interchanged on the pedigrees. In this case I suspect that Ellen belongs at C12 and William at C5. In other words Ellen (C5) was not the sister of Adam  (C1) and Jerry (C4) but their sister-in-law.

After the split, while Godfrey and Elijah were about 5 and 2 respectively, Ellen took up with Jerry (C5). Whether or not Godfrey and Elijah knew that Jerry was their uncle, and not their biological father, will remain a mystery.

And at this point I will terminate my contributions to this subject.

Best of  luck

[boswell37]

Adam Wood's baptism in 1827, assuming he did not die young, roughly determines the date at which William abandoned his wife. It may be a few years out to place the date at 1841, as Matty Wood does, because he says that the brothers Adam and Jeremiah were about 10 or 11 which means 1837-8 and that is around the time of Elijah's birth.

If Jerry senior was William's brother it makes sense for him to have partnered Ellen but there is still a tiny bit of doubt as to who was the father of Elijah. It is possible that Ellen was indeed the sister of Jeremiah assuming all of her children came from William. I certainly cannot see any Adam being involved.

Sampson's problem is the same as ours. How to get it right without implying incest. Some of those old Ryes loved to imply the worst. They were obsessed with it. But I think Sampson had his head screwed on correctly.

That's all I've got.