Manchester Catholic Parish Church - 1848

[KitCarson]

Bill

In hindsight, I would have to agree.  I was probably lured by the 'Marriage solemnized at the Cath... Parish Church ....'  These are my Aunt's line (she's my Aunt by marriage, but asked me to try and locate her relatives) and although her familiar family is now Catholic, they may well have been something else a century or so earlier.

[jds1949]

If the certificate is the normal kind it should say immediately under the information about the two parties something along the lines of:

"Married in the [name of church] according to the Rites and ceremonies of the Established Church"

If that is the case then it's almost certainly a marriage at the Cathedral Church of Manchester - C of E - if it's the Catholic Cathedral then the wording will say "according to the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Catholics"

jds1949

[Luzzu]

I understand that many Catholic couples married in Manchester Cathedral (CofE) in the 19th century as I think they believed the marriage would not be valid unless they were married in the Established Church because of Hardwickes 1754 Marriage Act.

My gt grandmother had both a CofE and a RC marriage.  Her father who I know was definitely RC was married after Banns in the Established Church but was buried as a Catholic.  His older brother and their parents were married according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Catholic Church.  They lived in a very poor area and could neither read nor write so I suppose they tried to follow what they thought was right the best way they could.

Also there weren't enough churches in Manchester to accommodate the huge increase in the population.

There was also something to do with fees.  When a couple got married in Manchester they had to pay both the local church and the Collegiate Church (Manchester Cathedral) so it was cheaper to get married at Manchester Cathedral.

Its a fascinating subject.

Luzzu

[emmsthheight]

Hi Luzzu and all

Luzzu, you more or less read my mind!  I have always been told that at this stage in the 19C loads of people who were of other denominations were married in the Established Church because of the various effects of the aftermath of the earlier bill, not leat of all relating to money and legitimacy of children.

Like Luzzu there are Roman Catholics in my family who were married in the established church, and brought their children up in the Roman Catholic faith, as ois shown in their baptismal records, funerals and family stories.  Some of these were married in Manchester Cathedral.

I haven't actually found second marriages but I'm told not all of these were recorded because of the insecure times they were living in.

Incidentally, I was told that  there was once a Catholic priest based at the Cathedral.  Not sure of the details though.

All makes the research more interesting!

Best wishes

Emms

[Luzzu]

Hi again,

Just found quite an interesting article on Roman Catholic marriages in Manchester in the 19th century on this link:-

http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_12.htm

It basically says that prior to 1908 getting married outside the Catholic Church did not go against the church.  I would love to post the whole item but I am certain it will break the copyright rules.

You have to scroll down a bit because its near the bottom of the page.

This website is really good generally and has some fascinating stuff about Manchester on it.

Luzzu

[KitCarson]

Hey Luzzu, really appreciate your info.  Gaining knowledge as I go!  Kit

[emmsthheight]

Hi

Thank you Luzzu.  That's a great site.  There's a great dpage on the origens of the Cathedral and other Manchester and Salford parishes.  Great explanation, but it's not surprising people get confused!

Also some fascinating transactions where marriage was concerned!

http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_10.htm

Best wishes

Emms

[Luzzu]

Brilliant article.

Can you imagine the chaos of 10-20 couples getting married at the same time?
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that Christmas Day was popular for Manchester Cathedral weddings and - not sure how true this is  - that sometimes the Groom didn't even have to be present    Would be interesting if anyone else had heard anything like this.

Also, Salford Cathedral is a Catholic cathedral.

[FAB Fiona]

"Catholic" can be a confusing word, as it means universal, all-encompassing, etc. 

Did it come into use in the religious sense in the 2nd century or so to differentiate it after the break with what are now the eastern "orthodox" churches?  And I think it is still used in CofE liturgy when it refers to itself as the Holy Catholic Church or some such (I stand to be corrected... ).

Some churches did refer to themselves as Catholic when they were CofE.  I don't think "Roman Catholic" came into use as a common term until the 20th century, the Roman Catholic church was more often The Church of Rome.

Doesn't help us much when we're trying to sort our family histories!

Fiona