German Pork Butchers in Britain

[rothermelbird]

Hi SwissGill
Thanks! It's amazing as you say how many Pork Butchers there were around who came from Germany ! Whilst searching for the Zieglers in Sheffield to see whether they were also Pork Butchers from the same village as the Rothermels I came across the Hubner family in Sheffield Pork Butchers. They had a Rosina Zeigler working for them on the 1891 census in the shop. I also found Ludwig Zeigler in Hull and Frederick Ziegler in Wigan both Pork Butchers! I found so many staff in the shops who worked as assistants and servants all from Germany. It would be great to see some of their advertisements for staff!
As for the Rothermels  in the 1890 Kelly's directory George Rothermel High Street Wellingborough was described as a Butcher and William Meyer of Silver Street a Pork Butcher. It appears the two Rothermel brothers split and brother John moved to Nottingham where he was listed as a pork butcher. as you say in the 1894 Wrights Directory. He died in 1920 in Nottingham
I am still looking !!
Best wishes

[Histres]

Dear rothermelbird,
I refer to reply #331 in this thread. You mention elderly Mrs Ziegler, who you met in Hörlebach when you were researching the Rothermels. Sadly enough, Mrs Ziegler died one or two years ago at high age. Therefore it couldn't have been her grandfather who went to Sheffield as a pork butcher. In fact it was her uncle Georg Friedrich Ziegler who emigrated from Ruppertshofen in the end-nineties of the nineteenth century. He went there at the same time as the Österleins from the same village and the Hofmanns from Schwäbisch Hall did. They all became pork butchers in England. The mentioned Mrs. Ziegler is therefore closely related to todays Zieglers of Wakefield and her family are still in close contact to the English branch of the family.
The Rothermels ran the village shop in Hörlebach. But it was not groceries or meat, what they sold, instead it was everything what housewives needed in their kitchen like pans, spices, sugar, oil and vinegar and that kind of stuff and also tools that were needed by a farmer. Besides the Rothermels ran a small farm and kept animals for their own supply with pork, eggs, milk, butter etc. These foods were produced on every single farm in the village, they didn't have to be sold in a shop.
Referring to the photo of the Star Inn in Wellingborough: The next building to the right is No. 12 that was occupied by the Rothermel butchers. Today the building is split in two parts with an entrance each, the left part indeed looks empty whereas in the right part there is the Chinese restaurant.

Regards
Histres

[rothermelbird]

Dear Histres
Sorry to disagree with you yet again, but I have read my notes about our visit to Mrs Ziegler which was in 2006. She told us she was around 82 years that means she was born in 1924 therefore her father would have been born around 1890 - 1900 and her grandfather anytime after around 1860. She told us he was a very young man when he left for England in the 1870's She invited us into her house and there were photos of the family hanging all over the walls. I attach one that she gave us showing her grandafther standing on the left. What I can't understand is where was her father born? Did her grandfather return to Horlebach to marry and have children? I have no way of checking this, her extended family over the years moved to Harrogate and York. She was  still in contact with her cousins in England and proudly showed us photos and cards.
She told us that in the mid 1900's the Rothermels left Hörlebach and moved to Ölhaus a very small hamlet near Ilshofen where they had three houses. Wilhelm Bühringer is now the owner of the grocery in the village and of the Rothermelhouse . Earlier on a family named Hofmann was the owner.
She heared that the family formerly called Rothermel in Ölhaus now has the name Hermann. I think there was in the end only a daughter called Rothermel and she probably married  a Hermann
I don't know whether it is possible to check anything out?Thanks so much!

[BecGilbert]

Dear Histress and South Yorkie,
     Late last night I found this site about German Pork Butchers in Britain and was astounded to see the name Charles Beyer because on the 1891 census sheet I got through Ancestry.com here in the USA, Charles, his wife Annie and their infant son, Charles F, were living with my own grandfather about whom I knew so little until a week ago.
     My grandfather's name was Frank Valentine Weller.  He was born March 27, 1872 in Nagelsburgh-Werttemberg and he emigrated to the UK in October of 1888 under the name Valentin Weller (#835767) from the district of Kuenzelsau, though he turned up on the 1891 census as Franky Weller.
     It is SO interesting that, also in the same household (don't know the address, only that it was in Yorkshire) was a young woman named Caroline Geller, two years older than Franky/Valentin because the family story that was kept under wraps here until just a year before Franky's last child's death in 2009 was that he'd had a Love Child with someone he lived with in England. Probably Caroline Geller though I didn't know her name until I saw the census sheet.
     Franky left the UK in April of 1894 and came to America to start a farm family (ended up with nine children here).  His first children with Anna Marie Rupprecht (born in Bavaria on November 23, 1875) were twins, Carl and Annie Weller, born December 15, 1897.  Until I saw this Pork Butchers site, it never occurred to me that Carl and Annie could have been named after Franky's friends -- the Beyers -- who were also from my grandfather's hometown.  I read everything I could on the Pork Butchers' site and would welcome any information from those who are hipper than me  because I know nothing more than what I have told you (I do know that Franky sent money to England -- probably to help the Love Child -- and that my grandmother raised cain with him about it but couldn't stop him.).
     I would LOVE to write up anything I can learn about this grandfather (who died before I was born -- on January 11, 1937) to share with my kids.  I have been searching for Caroline Geller and the Love Child but have so far been unsuccessful.  I think the census said that she was from Germany, too. Please email me at the following address if you know anything at all about any people mentioned, or if you can tell me what he must have gone through.  My grandmother didn't talk a lot about my grandfather.:
     My email address is *  My name is Bec Gilbert.  THANKS!
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[rothermelbird]

Hi BecGibert
Welcome to the thread. Never ever be surprised about change of names! My father was an illegitimate love child and had Rothermel, his mother's surname as a middle name, he never would tell us where this name originated from as in his day anything connected to Germany wasn't spoken about! He was known as Watson and my brother and I were brought up as Watson and after 10 years of research we still haven't found out who Mr Watson was (if he ever existed!) I am in the UK so if you want anything looked up from this end on databases just let me know as I am a full member of Ancestry.co.uk
Best wishes

[rothermelbird]

Hi BecGilbert
Today I have searched all the UK Birth indexes and not one child was born named either Weller of Geller between 1888 and 1895. Your grandfather was a Pork Butchers Assistant at 74 Carlisle Road Manningham Bradford Yorkshire and Caroline Geller was a servant in the shop. She appeared to have a brother called Carl born 1868 living in 15 Carlisle Terrace in Manningham, he was a Commercial Clerk. There was also a George Geller who may have been another brother working as a Pork Butchers assistant in Manchester for Lene Pheiffer. Caroline Geller married in December 1898 in Woolwich south London, it must have been her as she was the only one with that name in the country! I have traced Carl he emigrated to the USA in 1900 and married Theresa ( also German) and they appear on the US 1910 Census in New Jersy he was a cotton merchant.
I just had a thought - do you think Franky made his employer Annie pregnant? She was a young woman around 4 years older than him.  Frederick Beyer was born to her in September 1894, your grandfather left for the US in April 1894, she would have been around 3 months pregnant at the time. Perhaps he had to make a quick exit and for the rest of his life had to pay for his sins so as to keep the scandal quiet? When he married perhaps he named his daughter after her to keep the memory going?
This is why it was such a tightly kept secret in your family?
Best wishes

[Histres]

Hi rothermelbird,
I refer to your reply #335 in this thread.
Else Ziegler's grandfather was Johann Georg Ziegler who was born on 13th September 1852 and died on 9th March 1918. He was married twice. His first marriage was on 24th July 1877. I talked to a grandson of him. He thinks it cannot be ruled out that he was in England at a very early age like many others of the area were. If so, however, he must have come back after only a few years as he married in 1877. But there has never been such a rumour in the family.
Johann Georg Ziegler had 5 children in his two marriages, four boys and one girl. Their names were Georg Friedrich, Leonhard, Georg, Wilhelm and the youngest child Lena. (It seems to me that the photo you posted shows exactly these five siblings).
Leonhard was Else Ziegler’s father. Georg Friedrich was her uncle who became a very successful pork butcher and businessman in Wakefield, Georg was a school teacher and died very early, Wilhelm was in England for four years to assist his older brother and then returned to buy his own farm and Lena married in Hörlebach to a man called Kümmerer.
Else Ziegler had two older sisters, Mathilde and Anna. Mathilde married a Mr. Leidig in Hörlebach and as Else never married, she lived in the household of her oldest sister Mathilde Leidig whose house you were invited to. Anna married a Mr. Raißig of Herboldshausen.

The Rothermel house was taken over by a family Bühringer. The Bühringers had one daughter. She married Erich Hofmann. The Hofmann couple have two boys who are both unmarried. (You told it the other way round).

Now to the Rothermels: Heinrich Rothermel moved from Hörlebach to Ölhaus. His son Karl Rothermel inherited the farm. Karl Rothermel raised three daughters who are still alive. One of them inherited the farm at Ölhaus and married a Mr. Ehrmann. The Ehrmann family still live at Ölhaus. Another daughter is married and lives in nearby Eckartshausen. As I didn’t want to appear too curious I didn’t ask about the third daughter.

Best wishes
Histres

[johnbhoy]

Referring back to the Pork / Beef Butchers thread, while on most documentation the words Pork Butcher were often written, I did notice on my research, that Christian Frederick Wall had worked as a 'Butcher' at the Co-op in Lancaster and was also noted as a butcher (Journeyman) on other documents.

[0113vanny]

Dear Histres

since my last post, I have found out some more information that may help.  I think the Steinbachs either came from Kunselsau or Schwabish hall.   There were 3 sisters came over.   I know there was a Frederick Steinbach butcher in Liverpool who may or may not be related. 

Matilda Steinbach
B 1852 Wurttemberg, Germany

Bertha b 1864

Rose Steinbach  B. 1862, Wurttemberg, germany

mother Julia  Born 1830  and probably husband was called Frederick.

I have also found a Sophia B 1854. Morsbach (Wurtemberg)
Servant to Hohenreins but i do not know if she is related to the other 3 who are definitely sisters.

Any help or suggestions would be gratefully received.

they settled in Hull and Otley.  I am trying to trace exactly who was in the family group in Germany and any more information about them there.

thank you,