German Pork Butchers in Britain

[Lesleysearcher]

Brilliant thanks Gill!

[SwissGill]

Hi Lesley

When Katherine Most died in December 1924, she left a considerable sum to Annie Kimmerer, wife of George Kimmerer.

Annie married George Kimmerer in 1885 Sheffield and was born about 1860. Her maiden name was Bower anglicised (Bauer).

On the 1901 Census in Bootle, Lancashire, George Bower is in the same household as the Kimmerers and is stated to be a nephew. Kimmerer is "Kümmerer" but the Germans in this part pronounced the u nearly as i.

There is definitely a connection but it will be difficult to trace it. They may be related to "my" Bowers in Widnes but at the moment I can't say conclusively. John Bower and Christina Pfisterer Bower of Widnes were from Doerzbach in Germany.

John Bower gives his father's name as Frederick (Friedrich). Louis Pfisterer was born in Kuenzelsau, the district town and he returned there after 1911 and died there in 1936.

One thing is certain, they must have known each other.

You mention an obituary. It would be interesting to know the mourners' names and family, etc. Maybe there is a clue to be found here.

Gill

[Lesleysearcher]

Thanks Gill I had spotted the will and was guessing that Annie was Kate's sister but you have pulled a lot more connections from it.
I am researching Kate as she built had the house I now live in built in 1898 after Louis had died.
In their early life in Widnes they had a servant living with them called Pauline Haas also from Wurttemburg (just got correction through on Find my Past they had miss-transcribed as Haws) Pauline appears next on  1901 census as a house maid to Marion Pehrson 22 Riversdale Rd Nether Hallam Sheffield, looks as if there were lots of connections between the German families in Widnes and Sheffield.
I will look out my copy of the obituary but as I remember there were no other German names on it but I could be wrong.
Thanks
 

[Histres]

Hello zelo1954,

In rootschat #221 on page 23 you wrote that your forefather Johann Michael Karl Stier from Morsbach had his shop in Coronation Street in Sunderland.
A census entry revealed that also a John Kühner of Crispenhofen had his shop in 109 Coronation Street, Sunderland. With him worked and lived the pork butcher Carl Vogtherr of Blaufelden. The Vogtherrs emigrated again in 1913. From England they went to Hastings, New Zealand, where they still are in the business as bacon curers.
The above mentioned two shops shouldn't have been too far away from each other.
Therefore I am moved by the questions: Is it a coincidence that Stier and Vogtherr, who should have known each other, ended up in New Zealand. Can we again recognize a family-based pattern of migration? Do you know the Vogtherrs in New Zealand?

Best regards
Histres   

[SwissGill]

I found a record in the National Archives relating to Fredericka Kantenwein born 6th January 1861 in Kirchensall, Germany.

In it states her nationality is German and she is living at 44 Devon Street, Barrow-in-Furness, Lancashire.

It also states that she is exempt from internment, the reasons being that she is 78 years of age, has lived for 62 years in U.K. and two of her sons served in His Majesty’s Forces in the last war. It is dated 1939.

John Kantenwein, her husband died in 1937.

John Kantenwein, one of her sons, born 1884, Barrow-in-Furness, Lancs., married Sarah Jane Threlfall in 1907 in Barrow-in-Furness and travelled to the United States in 1909, destination Lockport, New York. He gives his wife as Sarah, living at 44 Devon Street, B-in-F.

On a Family Tree it gives his friends as Samuel and Ellen Bunn. I looked up the 1910 US Census and it turns out that Ellen is Sarah Jane’s sister. Also living in the household is her father, Moses Threlfall who emigrated in 1908, 4 years after the death of his wife. They lived at 66 Devon Street, B-in-F.

John Kantenwein is on the 1911 Census with his wife and two children, Thomas and Wilfred at 47 Kent Street, B-in-F.

John died in 1918 and I haven’t found any information on this.

Fredericka’s son, James enlisted for the services on 7.1.1916 and was discharged on 4.4.1918 from the Middlesex Rgt. No. G37962.

Who was the other son???

Most of the FT’s on A’cy give Fredericka’s birth place as Mecklenburg-Vorpommern as child of Heinrich and Marie Röger. I always thought this strange and now, with the proof from TNA, I think otherwise.

[apwright]

Grüezi SwissGill,
Do you mean, who was the other son who served?
Hope this link works: http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30911/pages/11221
(last but one paragraph in second column)
Thomas K. changed his name by deed poll to Thomas ROGERS and served in 3rd Infantry Labour Company, Middlesex Regiment.
See http://1914-1918.net/msex_aliens.html

Fredericka’s son, James enlisted for the services on 7.1.1916 and was discharged on 4.4.1918 from the Middlesex Rgt. No. G37962.

Not quite! He was discharged as Private 124740 from the Royal Army Service Corps (it's scribbled in the upper margin of his medal index card!).

Adrian

[SwissGill]

Thank you Adrian for the correction of James and the addition of Thomas.

This makes it perfect. The name Rogers derives from his mother's maiden name of Röger.

There are so many FTs on Ancestry stating that Friederike Röger was from Mecklenburg Pommern (probably just copied without verifying) that I now feel happy that this family is "as it should be" with the inclusion of Thomas.

Thank you also for the link about the Middlesex Regiment. Someone on a Sheffield forum was wondering about this Regiment and I googled it and came across The Long Trail.

I am also on the Great War Forum but cannot contribute much.

Gill

[rothermelbird]

Hi All - my family and I are still mystified as to why our Rothermel Great Grandfathers set up their first Pork Butchers shop in the High Street in Wellingborough Northants. Whilst looking at the 1861 census returns I found a Frederick Meyers, his wife Rosina and family running a Pork Butchers shop at 13 Silver Street Wellingborough. On the 1881 census the Rothermels were at 12 High Street, It appears the Meyers were from Kunzelsau which is a few kilometers from Horlebach where the Rothermels came from. On the 1851 census Frederick Meyers was working as an apprentice pork butcher for Frederick Roll in Wakefield. We think the Rothermels must have arrived in England between 1872 and 1875. But why Wellingborough ? On the 1881 Census Frederick Meyers had retired ( at 51 rather young ) perhaps the Rothermels knew the Meyers and took over the Pork Butcher business in the town? Anyone any ideas ??
Histress has been a great help in the past tracing the family back to 1427 in Wurttemburg

[johnbhoy]

My wifes Great Grandfather, Christian Friedrich Wahl, b: Hohebach 1872.
 
Photo taken in 1912 with his wife (Mary Dixon b: Bewcastle 1876) and their children in Carlisle, Cumbria.

At aged 43 in November 1914, he was " Civillian in British hands, interned in the United Kingdom", Serial # 17837.
Released from internment, he was "Re-interned in Hfth. (Handforth, Cheshire) 10 July 1915" and released at the end of the war