German Pork Butchers in Britain

[johnbhoy]

Hi  Histress,

All within an  hour and a half, WOW.

Well done

Rebew

I agree, never fails to surprise 

[Histres]

I'd really appreciate knowing if there are any references to the Ebert or Kramer families. 

Dear Kathie,
Last Friday I visited a family of Künzelsau who had forefathers that were pork butchers in Bradford. Those were Carl Frederick Beyer of Künzelsau (1843 - 1915) and his wife Louisa Caroline née Hartmann (*1842 Derby, +1922 Künzelsau). This Beyer family was closely related to a Kramer (Krämer) family of Sheffield and I have the strong feeling that this is the Krämer family you are looking for. The Krämers originate from Gaisbach near Künzelsau, where one of the forefathers ran the village inn. Other relations existed to a Frederick (Friedrich) family of Hull and a Charles Krämer of Sheffield is described as a wholesale dealer of tea.
Have you ever come across these links to the Beyer and Friedrich families in your Krämer family?
The Künzelsau family lent me their "English" photo album to take scans of the photos. In there are also pictures of some Krämer family members. Are you interested?
In return I would be interested in the drawing of Pinstone street that you mentioned in your last post.

Best wishes
Histres

[johnbhoy]

Hi Histres my Friend

Hopefully next month July, I may get a reply from the Red Cross reference the internment camp, keeping my fingers crossed mate, I'll contact you as soon as I receive any news

Freundiche Grüße

John

[johnbhoy]

Hi Everyone,
Here's something I learned while I have been researching the family tree, please bear with me and I will explain.

While I wait for Christians internment records, I started searching on Christians wife, Mary Dixon, sunrise: 1876 Bewcastle Cumberland, sunset: 08/11/1955 Carlisle, Cumberland. (Mary and the Family became committed Salvationists during the hardships with Christians internment).

Mary Dixon's Father was William Dixon, sunrise: 1851 Burgh by Sands, Cumberland.
Mary's Mother was Margaret, sunrise: Bewcastle 1850.

I could not find Margaret's maiden name and thought I would not get any further. Then a person on Rootschat told me there was a possibility that Margaret's maiden name could be Mitchell, but would not be able to confirm for a week or so.

Now here is my little tip.....whilst searching my ancestors, I always print, scan, copy, file, save, ALL family members in the records I come across, including siblings, cousins, nieces etc etc.
I had a look at Christian and Mary's children and noted that in 1903, one of their children was baptized George Karl MITCHELL Wall.

There you have it....seeemples, here endeth the lesson      or does everybody do that already and I'm just daft 

[Kathiesummers]

Hi Histres

No, I haven't come across Beyer or Friedrich, but I did find some pork butcher Kramers living in Bradford in the mid 1800s, and I suspect they were related to the Sheffield Kramers.  Hiller and Lang are the other names I have come across.

I haven't found a Charles Kramer who was a tea dealer, only pork butchers (father b1819 in germany, son b1850 in Sheffield).  My attention was drawn to the Kramers because I thought they might help with my Ebert ancestors - Frederick Kramer (pork butcher) married Mary Ann Ebert (daughter of Frederick Ebert) in 1844 in Sheffield, and John Christian Kramer occupied the same butchers shop at 1 Pinstone Street that Frederick Ebert previously occupied.  Also, John Christian Kramer's wife was born in Westminster at around the same time that Frederick Ebert lived in Westminster.  I suspect John Christian Kramer and Frederick Kramer were brothers, maybe Charles too.

I've searched the Baden-Wurtemmburg land records that are online and have found reference to a Johann Michael Ebert as a miller in Hurden near Bachlingen in about 1795, and reference to a divorce application by Friedrich Ebert of Hurden in 1801. As 'my' Frederick Ebert married in Westminster in 1805, this could possibly be him, and I thought I had managed to order a copy of the document through the website - but my German is not very good and I find the site quite confusing - and they didn't ask for any money, so I'm not surprised that nothing has arrived. 

I've attached the drawing of Pinstone Street below - I think No 1 would be the 2nd shop from the left.  Charles Kramer later had a shop at 5 Pinstone Street.  Yes please I would like to see the Kramer pictures, even though they are not directly linked to me.

Thanks
Kathie

[glen_roger]

Hello All,
First post in this thread.

I learned that Frederike Roger, sister of Karl Friedrich died in infancy from a friend who did some research for me in Germany and I have passed that information on as fact.

Is it possible that I have reported an error and that Frederike did NOT die as reported?

I wonder if someone might be able to check to see if Christiane Friedrike Röger (born 23 MAY 1858 in Niedernhall, sister of Karl Friedrich Ernst Röger and daughter of Christian Karl Röger and Christina Friederike Dünger) did in fact die 10 JUL 1859 or might she be Frederike of Ulverston?

Thanks.

Glen

Richard

I don't think the Frederike Roger you mention is a sister of Karl F.E. & Frederick C Roger. They were 2 of a family of 10 Rogers from Niedernhall but  Frederike is not listed (source Glen Roger). The 1891 Census records Fred Rogers (Frederick C) servant working for a family named Howson in Barrow in Furness. He was a porkbutcher and married to a Sophie Weber (Bradford 1993). They had 6 children 3 of whom had died at the time of the 1911 census. Thanks to Swissgirl I now have 3 of their daughters, Florence born in  Birmingham, Maude bn in Biddulp and Winifred in Barrow in Furness. So far I have had no success in tracing these 3 children. There appears to have been a number of Roger(s) familys in Barrow in Furness so without ordering a lot of marriage certs I can't progress. Anybody any ideas?

Rebew

[johnbhoy]

Welcome to the thread Glen, that is an interesting attachment, where is that from?

[glen_roger]

The researcher in Germany, Erika Lanz, found it in a Family Book in the village of Niedernhall.  She sent me several jpegs but the resolution isn't great and neither is my German.

[johnbhoy]

Taking a wild guess, I take it that the dates marked with a cross are the death dates. Fascinating attachment.