Author Topic: German Pork Butchers in Britain  (Read 242930 times)

Offline SwissGill

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #234 on: Wednesday 30 March 11 20:23 BST (UK) »
Just before I call it a day:

Elisabete Wilhelmina Bartelmeh of 32 Marlborough Road, Manningham, Bradford, widow, died Nov 1929, Probate Durham to Hilda Margaret Rayner (wife of William Rayner) and Lina Regina Bartelmeh, spinster.
Whitlow: Witton-cum-Twambrooks/Northwich
Bowers: Marthall, Siddington, Cheshire
Owen: Cheshire
Pfisterer (Fisher): West Riding Yks 1850-1875
Fisher (Pfisterer): Des Moines, Iowa 1886-
Wallis: West Riding Yks/Des Moines, Iowa, 1892-
Heinzmann: Hull/Northwich
Pfisterer, Heinzmann, Künzelsau, Baden-Württemberg
Brueck: Kocherstetten B-W
Volpp: Morsbach B-W
Schluchterer: Künzelsau, B-W

Offline RichardFunk

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #235 on: Wednesday 30 March 11 20:29 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much. I had a lot of their background, although you have to be a bit creative with the searches as the name gets a bit mangled as you found out. It was the marriage that I really wanted and now I can try to link her to my tree. Thanks!
Names: Funk, Kantenwein, Otterbach, Raissen, Hub, Stier
Places: Belsenberg, Morsbach, Rueblingen, Ober/Unter Regenbach

Offline Histres

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #236 on: Wednesday 30 March 11 20:43 BST (UK) »
Hello zelo 1954,
Thank you very much for showing your documents to us. With these we can see what relations and connections there existed between different families. This helps us with our further research. We have already realized that most of the German pork butchers came from Hohenlohe and learn that the Hohenlohe emigrants established a close-knit family and business network in Britain.

Best wishes
Histres
German pork butchers in Britain and in Ireland

Offline Histres

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #237 on: Wednesday 30 March 11 21:02 BST (UK) »
Hello Robert,

The name Bartelmeh is a derivation of Bartholomew, in German "Bartholomäus", probably brought to Hohenlohe by some Huguenot immigrants. There are various spellings of the name in the area like Barthelmess, Barthelmäh, Bartelmeß and others. A glance into the phonebook of the area revealed that there exists a Bartelmeh family in Weldingsfelden, only 3 miles from Belsenberg, where the Funks came from.
A quick phone call generated the following: The Bartelmehs in exactly this spelling have lived there for a long time. Unfortunately, the present bearer of the name didn't know his grandparents because of early deaths and his parents died early as well, so that he couldn't get much information from his own family. But some neighbours spread rumours that in the past some descendants of the family emigrated to England and even to Australia. We can get some prove by looking into the church records. Weldingsfelden at the time belonged to the Hohebach parish. I think with Weldingsfelden we're on the right track.
Regards
Histres
German pork butchers in Britain and in Ireland


Offline Histres

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #238 on: Wednesday 30 March 11 21:03 BST (UK) »
Sorry,
of course I wanted to write Richard and not Robert. Forgive me.
Histres
German pork butchers in Britain and in Ireland

Offline RichardFunk

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #239 on: Sunday 03 April 11 16:06 BST (UK) »
I wanted to do a post that showed how linked the Hohenlohe community in Britain was and how these connections were not hampered by geography. I noticed in a few previous posts the Roger family was mentioned. Two brothers, Karl Friedrich Ernst Roger and Friedrich C. Roger, were identified. I am not sure of the connection, but I have a Frederike Roger (abt. 1859) in my tree. She married John Leonard Kantenwein, my great great uncle, in Barrow, Cumbria in 1879. Her father isn’t listed on the marriage certificate for some reason!

John Leonard Kantenwein was brother to my great grandmother Margaret Funk (nee Kantenwein) and was a cousin of Kantenweins of Boston, who appeared recently in a post and we discovered that they donated a window to the church in Morsbach. One of his cousins, Eva Katharina Frederika Rosina Kantenwein (of Morsbach, 1858) married Friedrich Frank (1857), who had a shop at 19 Westgate Peterborough.

The mother of the Boston Kantenweins was Susanna Elisabetha Hohenrein. She was the brother of George Hohenrein (of Morsbach, 1832), who was also briefly mentioned in an earlier post. George came to England when he was 16 and was apprenticed to G. H. Friedrich in Mytongate, Hull. At 18 he opened his own shop at 7 Waterworks Street.

He married Katharina Christina Meyer (of Kunzelsau, 1837), who had a brother, Friedrich Meyer (1830), who set up shop in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire. Friedrich married Susanna Rosina Schoeppler (of Kunzelsau, 1824), whose brother, Louis, also owned a shop in Peterborough, at 9 Westgate.

The third Meyer sibling was Caroline (1835). She married Georg Heinrich Sperer (of Kunzelsau, 1824). The Sperers too had shops in Peterborough. Their daughter was Louisa Rose Sperer (1855), who married George Hagg (of Eberbach, 1855). He set up shop in Chesterfield, whilst his brother, John (1863), had a shop in Rotherham. I heard that the George Haag was going to America when he was caught in a fierce storm. After making port in England he decided that he would never go to sea again, so settled here instead. He came over with Willie Stinfig (not sure of the spelling), who changed his name to Simpson and listed Queen Victoria amongst his customers.

George Haag’s son albert married Laura Funk, who was the niece of my great grandmother Margaret Funk. The brother-in-law of Margaret Funk was Leonard Henry Hub (1863), who settled in Manchester. His son Fred married Mary Magdalena Davidson (whose mother came from Wuerttemberg). The Davidsons were friends with William Kuestner (also settled in Manchester), who was also mentioned in an earlier post, as an apprentice at the above mentioned George Hohenrein’s shop in Hull. I believe that Leonard Henry Hub was also apprenticed there.

The granddaughter of Leonard Henry Hub married Eric Alfred Samet/Sumner (1908), whose maternal aunt, Barbara Koppenhofer (1869), married Karl Kantenwein/Smith (of Wolfsolden, 1869). Karl was a distant cousin of Margaret Kantenwein, who set up shop in the Durham area, and thus probably knew Leonard Bartelmeh, who has been mentioned in a previous post and had a shop in Gateshead (I have ordered his marriage certificate). Leonard was friends with George and Margaret Funk, along with a Mr Heink and a Mr Hertrich, possibly John Hertrich (of Belsenberg, 1859) who had a shop in Westoe, which as coincidence would have it was also where another branch of Hubs had a shop. John Hertrich even apprenticed a Karl Hub in 1891.

I am aware that this is a long and confusing post, but it does show, how seemingly unrelated families were all linked together regardless of geography and how connected the Hohenlohe community was. If anyone has an interest in any of the families that I have mentioned then I can supply more detailed information on request.
Names: Funk, Kantenwein, Otterbach, Raissen, Hub, Stier
Places: Belsenberg, Morsbach, Rueblingen, Ober/Unter Regenbach

Offline Histres

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #240 on: Sunday 03 April 11 19:03 BST (UK) »
Good evening Richard,

It'a absolutely gorgeous how much information you have for us. But with your remarks on George Hohenrein I am a bit puzzled. Following your remarks, Hohenrein took over the shop in 7 Waterworks Street in Hull when he was 18. That would have been in 1850.
However, in the 1881 Census there is a George Wittmann on the premises. Wittman had previously been in Barrow-in-Furness and must have come to Hull between 1875 and 1879.
In the 1891 census, Wittmann resides at 21 Waterworks Street. At 7 Waterworks Street is now a George Hohenrein with his family, having two domestic servants: Rosina Magdalena Kurz (26 yrs.) and Maria Magdalena Schumann (22 yrs.).
Was this George Hohenrein the son or another relative of the George Hohenrein you mentioned?

Kind regards
Histres
German pork butchers in Britain and in Ireland

Offline RichardFunk

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #241 on: Sunday 03 April 11 20:42 BST (UK) »
Evening Histres

The situation seems to be this. In 1850 George Friedrich Hohenrein (1832) opened his shop at 7 Waterworks Street, Hull, although I can't find him on the 1851 census as yet (I need to study this family in greater detail). In 1861 George is living at 7 Waterworks Street, with his wife and daughter, Marie Frederike.

In 1871 George is living at 4 Victoria Street, and George Whitmann (1845) is listed as living at 7 Waterworks Street, with two other servants. Crucially Whitmann is listed as a 'Servant' and not 'Head', despite being first in the list (no 'Head' is listed for 7 Waterworks Street). From this I assume that George Hohenrein still owned the shop, but lived at 4 Victoria Street, which was, in fact, called Derringham Cottage. Hohenrein's job is listed as pork butcher, whereas Whitmann is only an assistant pork butcher, so he didn't run the shop.

By 1881 George Whitmann has married and is listed as 'Head' and 'Pork Butcher' at 7 Waterworks Street. I think he is running the shop on behalf of Hohenrein, who I can't find in 1881. I know that Hohenrein opened a second shop at 22 Princes Avenue, Hull, so maybe he was involved in running that and needed someone to run 7 Waterworks Street for him.

In 1891 George Hohenrein is still living at Derringham Cottage with his family. Whitmann has moved further up the road to 21 Waterworks Street. At number 7 is George William Hohenrein (1865), George Hohenrein's eldest son. George Jnr was married to Julie Biermann, who was born in Germany.

George Snr died in 1902 and left a fortune of £60,000-70,000 to his eldest son George Jnr. However, George Jnr moved to Germany in 1907, due to the ill health of his wife. The business passed to his brother Charles Henry Hohenrein (later changed to Ross). George Jnr died in Wuerzberg in 1933.

In a final twist of fate, Else, the daughter of George Jnr married a man called Alf Bartelmeh. They moved to America. Their daughter, Jean Bartel, was an actress and winner of the 1943 Miss World - Google her.

Much of my information comes from details received from the late Charles Ross, Charles Henry's son. There is a handy round up of his research in John Markam, Keep the Home Fires Burning: Hull Area in the First World War (1982), part 2.

Richard
Names: Funk, Kantenwein, Otterbach, Raissen, Hub, Stier
Places: Belsenberg, Morsbach, Rueblingen, Ober/Unter Regenbach

Offline RichardFunk

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Re: German Pork Butchers in Britain
« Reply #242 on: Sunday 03 April 11 20:43 BST (UK) »
*John Markham, 1988 not 1982.
Names: Funk, Kantenwein, Otterbach, Raissen, Hub, Stier
Places: Belsenberg, Morsbach, Rueblingen, Ober/Unter Regenbach