Black - Dornes

[kingy011]

Hi. I am researching my great grandparents and their parents. My GGp's were John Black and Isabella Dornes. John was a Palnackie-born mariner who was drowned in 1891 when his vessel was lost in a storm in the Solway. I have traced his ancestors for quite a way back, but have drawn a bit of a blank with Isabella. She married John in Liverpool in 1881 and they lived in Palnackie, where she died in 1897. Her death registration shows her parents as Matthew Dornes and Helen Ross. I have no idea where they came from and whilst there are quite a few Helen Ross's of the time (circa 1830), try as I may, I can't find a Matthew Dornes. I have tried every way of spelling his surname, without success. Has anyone out there any ideas, or matches
Bryan

[AMBLY]

Hi Bryan

This would be Isabella in Census 1891 with her children - John has already been lost?
1891 Census in Parish of Buittle, Kirkcudbrightshire (in which lies Palnackie)
Widow/Pauper: Isabella BLACK 31, b Rerrick, Kirkcudbrightshire

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/KKD/Rerrick/index.html
Rerrick "The parish has borne, at different periods, the names of Dundrennan, Monkton, and Rerwick, or Rerrick.

This could be her in 1861? (Age is a bit out compared to 1891 Census. But better matches the age (40) Isabella BLACK nee DORNES was registered as at death in 1897.  How old was Isabella when she married John?) :

1861: High Street, Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbrightshire
Parish 871, Ed 3, pg 9, HS 42
Head: Helen DORANS 37, Out door Worker, b Kirkcudbright
Son: Matthew DORANS 14, b Kirkcudbright
Dau: Mary DORANS 11, b Kirkcudbright
Dau: Janet DORANS 8, b Kirkcudbright
Dau: Isabella DORANS 5, b Kirkcudbright
Son: James DORANS 6, b Kirkcudbright

Will have a look at 1851 & 1871

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

1851: Balgredden Cottage, Kircudbright, Kircudbrightshire
Parish 871, Ed 3a, pg 11, HS 37
Head: Mathew DORAN 45, Ag Lab, b Ireland
Wife: Helen DORAN 30, b Kircudbright
Son: Mathew DORAN 4, b Kircudbright
Dau: Mary DORAN 2, b Kircudbright
Dau: Jessy DORAN 2 mnths  b Kircudbright


Isabella BLACK died in 1897 she was registered in Buittle  as age 40 (b abt 1857), other name DORNES.

Since DORAN is a known Irish name (got a good few of them myself <<sigh Irish research <<sigh>>>> ) I do suspect the name was entered incorrectly on her marriage lines, and whoever informed of her death  didn't know her maiden name and simply repeated  the name on the marriage lines - or else were illiterate and simply showed the marriage lines to the registering clerk who copied it down none the wiser? Something of that nature?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

1871: High Street, Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbrightshire
Parish 871, ED 1, pg 12. HS 75
Head: Ellen DORRANS 44, Agricultural Labourer , b Kirkcudbright
Son: James DORRANS 17, Wood Forrester. b Kirkcudbright
Dau: Isabella DORRANS 15, Scholar, b Rerwick, Kirkcudbrightshire
Son: Charles DORRANS 9, Scholar, b Kirkcudbright

Cheers
AMBLY

[kingy011]

Hi Ambly,
Thank you so much for your help. We have spent a lot of time walking up blind alleys, not seeing what we should...but I suppose that is the challenge. Yes, we wondered if illiteracy was a big part, plus the phonetics tend to match, so the registrars would have recorded their interpretation and the informants may have been none the wiser!
We knew that Isabella was a name that was 'taboo' in the family. My grandmother knew little of her at all and, apparently, was met with a wall of silence when she asked questions. We did find out through research that she  had a daughter (Dornes) about 4 years after her husband died...probably explains things!
Again, many thanks for the info,
Best wishes,
Bryan

[AMBLY]

Hi Bryan

It does seem to all fit, doesn't it - I'm glad 
Seems Isabella wasn't the only one, as her mother Helen appears to have had a child in 1862 when I suspect her husband may have been deceased in 1857:

IGI extracted entry:
BIRTH: 11 Feb 1862, Kirkcudbright
Charles DORRANS
Mother: Hellen DORRANS
(Father not named)

Now here's the thing:

Mathew DORAN......

A**ces**Y transcribe him as 15 in 1851, clearly an error -  and  Scotland's People have him as 45.
If Helen is a widow by 1861 (need to check SP for that), then he died between 1851 and 1861.
There is a death on SP of a Mathew DORRAN in 1857 registered Kirkcudbright age 73.

Thinking it could be his father...and that perhaps his son, Helen's husband died before 1855....BUT

In 1841, the only one I see is:

1841: Marks Mansion St - Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbrightshire
Matthew DORAN 50, Agri Sevant, b Ireland
Catherine DORAN 49, b Ireland

and in 1851, the only one I see is Helen's husband.
Perhaps he was really 65 in 1851, not 45 (4 and 6 misread?) or else the Death Index age is incorrect  

Cheers
AMBLY

[kingy011]

Hi ,
Wow! Started out today with nothing..now need a strong coffee to take it all in! Many, many thanks
Bryan 

[KirstyG]

Hi Bryan

If you post a request someone might have a headstone transcription for some of this family which could help sort out the generations.

Gadget had posted an offer of MI lookups a while ago, and one or two other folk have MI books for various parishes, so you might get lucky.

Kirsty

added: If the 1851 census was misread by SP then it was also misread by the Dumries and Galloway archives people.

[kingy011]

Thanks Kirsty..will have a go at that
Cheers,
Bryan